Sid's diary

Skib

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2003
8,294
1,728
113
London
Point missed. Our feet are not hurting. But it was assumed my horse's feet were hurting her. Of course I permanently ride the worst kept and the worst treated horses on NR.
 

PePo

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2014
1,997
2,135
113
Point missed. Our feet are not hurting. But it was assumed my horse's feet were hurting her. Of course I permanently ride the worst kept and the worst treated horses on NR.
I can't see where anyone has suggested (or outrightly stated) that you ride the worst kept and treated horses Skib?

FWIW, I've not referenced your RS horse - my responses were never about you, as this was Jane's thread, my posts were solely in relation Jane and her horse.

Horses can choose a surface just because - no one has said otherwise. But, it would be remiss of me not to pick up that it *could* be due discomfort when mine showed similiar behaviour in similiar situations. Personally, I'd rather assume that it was discomfort and act accordingly until we can reasonably assume it wasn't - but people are free to make up their own minds :)

It's tricky at the best of times making a decision about low grade discomfort when you know the horse well, let alone when the horse is new to you.
 
Last edited:

Jessey

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2004
24,165
14,611
113
40
Suffolk, UK
Point missed. Our feet are not hurting. But it was assumed my horse's feet were hurting her. Of course I permanently ride the worst kept and the worst treated horses on NR.
Seeking softer ground is indicative of discomfort, your feet may not be hurting, but it is less comfortable. I never said about it being excruciatingly painful or anything similar and I did not say that the horse you ride is the worst kept or worst treated, you are putting words in my mouth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carthorse

Mary Poppins

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2004
12,516
3,633
113
Visit site
I wonder if it all depends on how stoic the horse is? As soon as Bens shoes came off he didn't appear the least bit sore at all. He always takes the quickest route so that may be on grass, tarmac, shingle or through puddles. I have never had the slightest reaction from him. But then again, I only had the slightest reaction (just a slight wince) that he had a sore back, and he ended up have 2 sets of physio under sedation plus monthly treatment for 6 months to put that right. Both the vet and the physio were horrified at how sore he was, but I didn't know (it didn't help that I paid for a 'back person' to come out 3 times who told me he was fine, but that is another story!).

Our most recent hospital visit shows that his mouth is severely swollen and ulcerated, but until he started dropping his hay in huge clumps I didn't know about this either and I wonder how long it has been going on? It makes me think that horses differ greatly in their ability to show and communicate pain, but this doesn't mean that they don't feel it. In my opinion we owe it to our horses to be on the constant lookout for pain and discomfort. I would rather overreact if I was worried rather than assume everything was OK.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huggy

carthorse

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jan 6, 2006
9,215
5,174
113
Point missed. Our feet are not hurting. But it was assumed my horse's feet were hurting her. Of course I permanently ride the worst kept and the worst treated horses on NR.

The others were making a valid point @Skib because it's very common for horses with sore or uncomfortable feet or joints to seek out grass verges or other softer going and so if a horse regularly does so it's a question to be raised. I know if I'm walking I'll seek different types of footing - grass over hard, level over uneven - because it's easier for my ankles and so I get less joint pain. Now it could be as simple as the horse is looking to hop onto the grass in the hope of a canter - I've ridden a few of those over the years too - but I would always consider mild discomfort too.

As for your comment about permanently riding the worst treated horses on NR - where on earth has that come from? No-one has said or implied that, here or elsewhere that I've seen, so unless you have a reason for thinking that yourself then I really don't understand your comment. Furthermore you have no say in the management of the horses you ride so why would anyone comment on it?
 

chunky monkey

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2007
6,799
5,013
113
Now it could be as simple as the horse is looking to hop onto the grass in the hope of a canter -
Yep i definitely have one of those.
Along the country lane if i ride with no reins at all he will vere off to the grass and straight into canter. No discomfort for sure.

Some of the tracks i ride round here are stoney as we are on limestone. I actually try to help my barefoot out by riding in the bits that i can see arent stoney or loose stone. So if a bit looks smooth i will ask him to move over. So one minute we are on the left of the track, 10 secs later we might be on the right of the track.
In actually fact if you do the tracks regularly or daily like i do the horses definitely learn or maybe they just see the smooth bits. So if i ride with no rein, my horses will automatically swap sides in the same place each ride without my asking on there own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huggy

carthorse

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jan 6, 2006
9,215
5,174
113
@chunky monkey where I am a lot of work is on flinty tracks and/or very uneven ground and many of us do that even with shod horses. Though there are others who just see a track and go for a canter where we are careful walking. Each to their own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huggy

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
18,827
6,787
113
61
Surrey Hills
I had a visit from my vet yesterday to discuss Sid's mallenders, which have flared up and dropped off during the summer. She was helpful. Her view was:

* Mallenders is indeed hyperkeratosis, and horses are predisposed to it if they have dry skins and coats, as many feathery cobs, heavy horses and Friesians have. In most cases there is a causative factor - something makes the horse's skin overgrow. The problem is that there are very many possible causative factors and combinations of factors, and it is likely that in each horse there is an individual combination of factors: bacterial, fungal, parasitic, metabolic and environmental.

* As a result the only way for a vet to treat them appropriately is to take samples from the scabs, culture them, and create a bespoke medication (usually a cream or liquid) which works against the bacterial, parasitic or fungal factors found in that specific horse. Even this will not address metabolic or environmental factors.

This is very expensive, and since mallenders is not a life threatening or (except in very serious cases) performance threatening condition, vets don't usually suggest it. As a result 99% of owners treat it as a chronic condition which can only be managed, and find the solution that works best for them by trial and error.

As far as Sid's condition went, she said:

* his mallenders is mild;

* I appear to be managing it adequately;

* he allows me to handle his legs, part his feathers, and rub in the horse oil I am using. This is by no means the norm and indicates that he trusts me and that he finds the treatment helpful. He wouldn't let the vet touch his legs below the knee.

Therefore I should continue doing what I am doing. I would do better in treating the condition if I removed the excess skin/scabs and treated with an antibacterial, but this would hurt and sting and, as the vet said, "end up with you on the roof of your stable and Sid up the other end of the field". She thought it wasn't worth the trouble for a mild condition.

She also recommended:

* grow the feathers, as they provide protection
* never wash his feathers unless I absolutely have to (@Cortrasna, you were right!). If I absolutely have to, use an animal shampoo such as Malaseb, never a human medicated shampoo
* feed a supplement to promote moisture in the skin and coat. She recommended mirra-coat, of which I found possibly the last 2 tubs in the whole of the UK and bought them yesterday. I notice that it contains biotin.

I'm going to copy this into Sid's diary so I have a record of it which I won't forget!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huggy

Huggy

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2018
4,127
4,851
113
65
I had a visit from my vet yesterday to discuss Sid's mallenders, which have flared up and dropped off during the summer. She was helpful. Her view was:

* Mallenders is indeed hyperkeratosis, and horses are predisposed to it if they have dry skins and coats, as many feathery cobs, heavy horses and Friesians have. In most cases there is a causative factor - something makes the horse's skin overgrow. The problem is that there are very many possible causative factors and combinations of factors, and it is likely that in each horse there is an individual combination of factors: bacterial, fungal, parasitic, metabolic and environmental.

* As a result the only way for a vet to treat them appropriately is to take samples from the scabs, culture them, and create a bespoke medication (usually a cream or liquid) which works against the bacterial, parasitic or fungal factors found in that specific horse. Even this will not address metabolic or environmental factors.

This is very expensive, and since mallenders is not a life threatening or (except in very serious cases) performance threatening condition, vets don't usually suggest it. As a result 99% of owners treat it as a chronic condition which can only be managed, and find the solution that works best for them by trial and error.

As far as Sid's condition went, she said:

* his mallenders is mild;

* I appear to be managing it adequately;

* he allows me to handle his legs, part his feathers, and rub in the horse oil I am using. This is by no means the norm and indicates that he trusts me and that he finds the treatment helpful. He wouldn't let the vet touch his legs below the knee.

Therefore I should continue doing what I am doing. I would do better in treating the condition if I removed the excess skin/scabs and treated with an antibacterial, but this would hurt and sting and, as the vet said, "end up with you on the roof of your stable and Sid up the other end of the field". She thought it wasn't worth the trouble for a mild condition.

She also recommended:

* grow the feathers, as they provide protection
* never wash his feathers unless I absolutely have to (@Cortrasna, you were right!). If I absolutely have to, use an animal shampoo such as Malaseb, never a human medicated shampoo
* feed a supplement to promote moisture in the skin and coat. She recommended mirra-coat, of which I found possibly the last 2 tubs in the whole of the UK and bought them yesterday. I notice that it contains biotin.

I'm going to copy this into Sid's diary so I have a record of it which I won't forget!
This is all useful for me with Hogan. He has no problems at the moment, but good to know, just in case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
18,827
6,787
113
61
Surrey Hills
Sid had another trim last week. He has a little white-line hole on one front which needs packing, but apart from that the trimmer is very happy with the growth of his feet and their angle. He thinks that they will shrink considerably by the time transition is finished (in about another 9 months). He said the boots which @diplomaticandtactful lent me fit well and I can use them while transitioning finishes.

He also saw the dentist, who said his teeth were very sharp and probably uncomfortable - he may not have seen a dentist for a couple of years. This might account for his business with the bit. He apparently has a pretty large tongue, as cobs tend to, but not so big thet he would need a ported bit or have trouble with a French link, which is what I use.

His teeth don't grow much above the level of the gum. The dentist had a long posh name for this which I can't remember. It may mean that he needs dentistry twice a year rather than once, but my dentist will see him again next summer and check how he is doing before we change the interval.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huggy

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
18,827
6,787
113
61
Surrey Hills
Such a nice hack today.

Sid made it very clear when I took him in to groom and tack up that he does not believe that afternoons are a good time to ride horses, who should be left alone to graze with their friends at this point. I was deaf to his arguments, however, and he quickly perked up when he realised we were going out in company, with Uta, riding Finn and leading little Maisie. He didn't give a moment's trouble at the mounting block, he wanted to get out there!

Finn can't bear noises behind him so Sid was to lead throughout, and Uta called instructions (because she likes to ride certain routes on certain days). We ended up with a lovely long hack, up onto the heath, across the bottom of the big clearing, down the gully, up to the Roman Temple and back over to Shamley Wood estate and down the steep hill home.

Sid was on great form. I think he is getting really comfortable in his boots (thanks again @diplomaticandtactful , they didn't squeak today) because he strode out nicely even downhill. He was delightfully forward, stepping out in walk and trot and eager to go and go faster in canter, but always coming back to me when I asked. Perfect, really. His ears were pricked and he was enjoying himself. He's getting to know his way around - he certainly knew when we started heading for home! - but he doesn't rush or pull and he isn't strong.

He's not fit either, he worked up a real muck sweat in the 1.5 hours we were out. I had to wipe him down with the wibbly sponge glove when we got home.

Memo to self: the saddle left two big circles on his back at the cantle. It used to do this with Ziggy and it's doing it now with Sid. I wonder if it needs some stuffing.
 

carthorse

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jan 6, 2006
9,215
5,174
113
If he's more comfortable in the mouth he'll almost certainly be quieter in the hand. Luka's hadn't been done for a very long time (ever?) and it made a big difference to him once the retained caps and sharp edges were removed.

It does sound like you need a saddler out if it's only leaving marks at the back - even sweat marks all along are fine, but they don't sound like that's the case. What's it like at the front? If he's put on some muscle because of correct work it could be it's a bit high there and so is shifting the weight back too much.
 

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
18,827
6,787
113
61
Surrey Hills
@carthorse I wouldn't say he's changed shape that much, and I don't feel that I am distributing my weight too badly - I don't have a chair seat, for example. I'll ask my RI to have a look at it next time she sees us and maybe ask my saddler out to do a bit of stuffing. It's as if the whole saddle might be leaning backwards, if you look at his back after a ride.
 

carthorse

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jan 6, 2006
9,215
5,174
113
I wasn't implying it's your riding, please don't think that 🤗. Saddle balance is jut as important as width, and impacted by far more than the rider - in fact it's very hard to ride in correctly balanced position if the saddle balance is wrong.

I had the saddler a couple of days ago because I thought my saddle looked a bit tight at the front and was sitting low. He was wanting to snatch the rein walking or trotting uphill - we have a lot of good hills - and I was feeling tipped forward which combined with his big movement was making my back sore. Sweat patches were more marked under the front of the saddle and looking behind I wasn't sure that the saddle wasn't moving slightly too. I was fairly sure I needed a narrower headplate to lift the front up, but what I actually needed was the balance altering with some flocking because is was sitting too low behind. It wasn't noticable on a static fit but once he started moving it was immediately clear to the saddler, and actually altering the headplate would have made it worse. I think I'm going to find his action has quite an impact on things lol.
 

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
18,827
6,787
113
61
Surrey Hills
@carthorse I know you didn't criticise me, but I always think it might be me! That's very interesting about your saddle, I have a feeling some flocking might help me too. It's tough to get the saddler here in Surrey, but after I have taken my RI's advice I'll give her a call :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: carthorse

PePo

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2014
1,997
2,135
113
@carthorse I know you didn't criticise me, but I always think it might be me! That's very interesting about your saddle, I have a feeling some flocking might help me too. It's tough to get the saddler here in Surrey, but after I have taken my RI's advice I'll give her a call :)

I'm fairly certain my saddle fitter travels to Surrey if that's any help Jane? Happy to pass details on if you do struggle to fine one - we're not a million miles away, I believe!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane&Ziggy

chunky monkey

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2007
6,799
5,013
113
Oh could you do me a favour and take some pictures of what your saying about the sweat bits on the saddle area @Jane&Ziggy . I want to compare with Billy as im sure his saddle has moved and i notice he has quite a bit of sweat at the back. Although like @carthorse i feel im leaning forward. Which doesnt equate to the sweat at the back if i understand right.
Im due a saddle fit.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Jane&Ziggy Sid Boot Camp! Horse Care 39
Jane&Ziggy Sid meets Bertie and Dudley Cafe 2
Jane&Ziggy Sid in a tizzy Hacking 4
Jane&Ziggy Sid happened. Poo fork recommendations please! Tried and Tested 4
Jane&Ziggy Sid is a dude Cafe 2
Jane&Ziggy Sid the Sossage Cafe 4
Jane&Ziggy A sit on Sid, plus goal setting Cafe 10
Jane&Ziggy Treating Sid's mud fever - pics added Veterinary,Injuries and Therapies 15
Jane&Ziggy Clicker training with Sid Training of the Horse and Rider 3
Jane&Ziggy Sid in a pickle Cafe 6
Jane&Ziggy Sid is home! Cafe 21
Jane&Ziggy A Sid visit Cafe 5
Jane&Ziggy Adios Mike, hello Sid - updated - Sid going forward to vetting Cafe 43
Innocence RIP Sid Rainbow Bridge 6
M Sid's lame am I doing the right thing? Horse Care 14
Jane&Ziggy Charlie Charles's diary Members Diaries 30
domane Picture Diary of a Horse-fly Bite Cafe 16
N Does anyone else keep a work diary for their horses? Cafe 18
Jessey Dan's Diary Members Diaries 83
sophie33 Lesson diary 2018 Members Diaries 61
Prjsmk PRJ and his human's diary. Members Diaries 13
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's hacking diary: lots of trots Hacking 0
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's hacking diary: miles and miles Hacking 6
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's hacking diary: I am BAD Hacking 1
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's hacking diary returns Hacking 3
SeeingSpots Diary of a Pony Squisher Members Diaries 46
chev My lesson diary 2017... Members Diaries 35
Native Lover From fat to fit ( A plus size riders diary) Members Diaries 122
chunky monkey Keeping a diary of your rides Hacking 4
P My diary Members Diaries 10
Skib Dressage Diary - Medium Trot Cafe 3
domane Date for your diary! Cafe 36
Jane&Ziggy The return of Ziggy's hacking diary - Roman Temple day! Hacking 4
New Rider Nic Diary of Nic - The Nervy Novice Members Diaries 44
Cremola Foam Pedro's riding diary :) Members Diaries 5
Skib Dressage Lesson Diary Members Diaries 41
Jacob Wright Jacobs' Diary Members Diaries 48
Jessey My big ride diary and the first of the pics Cafe 20
KarinUS The Single Rancher Girl's Diary Members Diaries 54
P Pete's Diary: FatBoy to slim ... Members Diaries 20
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's hacking diary: all those hills! Hacking 2
Cortrasna Dolly's soundness diary. Members Diaries 27
popularfurball Diary of a pony on steroids Members Diaries 16
chev A diary of lessons and my return to riding. Members Diaries 44
Jane&Ziggy Ziggy's diary - out on the long reins - pictures! Cafe 4
OwnedbyChanter Food diary - one for all of us Cafe 123
R Driving Diary Members Diaries 2
joosie just put an important appointment in Mouse's diary Cafe 8
Tina2011 My giving up smoking, getting fit diary Members Diaries 21
mystiquemalaika Diet diary? Cafe 21

Similar threads

newrider.com