I didn't want to say it, but downhill reluctance both out and back would make me look closer too. If it's his feet boots should help.
Sid's diary
- Thread starter Jane&Ziggy
- Start date
@PePo Very happy uphill. I haven't tried too hard with the boots yet as I am hoping his feet will come good. He has only been barefoot since April and is still transitioning. My trimmer was anxious about his weight but he has lost some now and has no signs of LGL (apart from this, which I hope to god it isn't).
The fact there's no problem uphill is great 
- I find when P started to want to rush (or was reluctant) at the bottom of hills it is (and was) a sign he was feeling his hocks.
The reluctance downhill would still concern me. I'd try treating him for inflammation if he was mine and see if it made a difference.
I'd re boot & possibly pad his boots as well. The thing about boots is they aren't a forever - P was booted December to early Summer but not needed them at all since. But I wouldn't hesitate to put them back on if he needed them. It just provides more comfort and support when they do need him.
I'd be looking to see where I could increase anti inflammation in him- willow worked well for P in the early stages. He's on a maintenance levelof NSAID so no longer feeding it but if he can come off the NSAID dose I'd offer it to himfor self selection.
Devils claw is a natural anti inflammatory too which might be worth a look and I've had success with adding dried nettles to his diet too.
I'm going to try adding turmeric & black pepper to P's diet as it's supposed be a brilliant anti inflammatory too.
The problem I found with LGL is that most of the signs are sub-clinical - P presented totally normally to my EP and it wasn't noticeable to a body worker either, as it was literally just at hills at the beginning.
Given his weight, I'd just be extra cautious as witha compromised metabolic state - even 'just' caused by being a bit overweight - you have less leeway.
How old is he? I'd be tempted to test for EMS and PPID too, but again, having been through it with P I think I'd act extra cautiously next time.
You've done so, so well with him though & he sounds like he's come such a long way with you
❤
- I find when P started to want to rush (or was reluctant) at the bottom of hills it is (and was) a sign he was feeling his hocks.The reluctance downhill would still concern me. I'd try treating him for inflammation if he was mine and see if it made a difference.
I'd re boot & possibly pad his boots as well. The thing about boots is they aren't a forever - P was booted December to early Summer but not needed them at all since. But I wouldn't hesitate to put them back on if he needed them. It just provides more comfort and support when they do need him.
I'd be looking to see where I could increase anti inflammation in him- willow worked well for P in the early stages. He's on a maintenance levelof NSAID so no longer feeding it but if he can come off the NSAID dose I'd offer it to himfor self selection.
Devils claw is a natural anti inflammatory too which might be worth a look and I've had success with adding dried nettles to his diet too.
I'm going to try adding turmeric & black pepper to P's diet as it's supposed be a brilliant anti inflammatory too.
The problem I found with LGL is that most of the signs are sub-clinical - P presented totally normally to my EP and it wasn't noticeable to a body worker either, as it was literally just at hills at the beginning.
Given his weight, I'd just be extra cautious as witha compromised metabolic state - even 'just' caused by being a bit overweight - you have less leeway.
How old is he? I'd be tempted to test for EMS and PPID too, but again, having been through it with P I think I'd act extra cautiously next time.
You've done so, so well with him though & he sounds like he's come such a long way with you
❤
@PePo thank you, I just am almost hysterical at the thought of another horse with laminitis!
I can easily give him devil's claw, I have tons of it. I actually fed willow yesterday and he loved it, but then he eats anything.
The vet is coming in 10 days to have a look at his mallenders, so I can ask her while she's there. Hoof testers perhaps.
I can easily give him devil's claw, I have tons of it. I actually fed willow yesterday and he loved it, but then he eats anything.
The vet is coming in 10 days to have a look at his mallenders, so I can ask her while she's there. Hoof testers perhaps.
Much bigger than a size 2 alas @Jessey ! @diplomaticandtactful has very kindly lent me a pair which seem to fit more or less (will be better after next trim) so I think it's time to start using them.
She has small feet for her size, a typical QH problem!
Pads will take up any slack and help stimulate the sole whilst wearing them to help the transition
I am interested in why in Surrey with so many gravel hills, you decided to go for unshod? In USA it was particularly in the mountains with stony ground that ranchers shod their horses. Ella is shod both front and back yet she makes her preference clear. She prefers the track to tarmac and on the track she prefers the grass verges to the sandy bit in the middle.
My previous long term hacking partners were shod front but not shod behind but that could have been because they may have kicked?
My previous long term hacking partners were shod front but not shod behind but that could have been because they may have kicked?
Ranch horses working up to 12 hours a day are no comparison to leisure horses, and they are very much seen as tools and often shoes are an easy answer to keep the horse earning his keep. There is a lot of information about the detriments of shoeing unnecessarily. The fact that a horse is shod all round and still uncomfortable (shown by the preference for softer surfaces) isn’t exactly a positive advert for shoeing. Choosing barefoot or shod is personal preference and I’m not anti shoes at all when it’s in the horses best interests, but shoeing shouldn’t be default either.
I prefer a horse to be barefoot if he can comfortably work that way (with boots if necessary). I think there's good evidence that their biomechanics are better in the long term without shoes, and if my horse is going to get laminitis I would rather know about it sooner than later. Sid has only been barefoot for 3 months after many years of wearing heavy shoes all round: I think I need to allow a good while for transition. @Jessey I have pads and will work with my trimmer on the next trim to see them fitted.
We have a new horse on our yard, by the way, who events regularly at 2* barefoot. His owner is delighted to be on a yard with several other barefoot horses. She says she was hazed mercilessly by pro-shoeing owners on previous eventing yards.
We have a new horse on our yard, by the way, who events regularly at 2* barefoot. His owner is delighted to be on a yard with several other barefoot horses. She says she was hazed mercilessly by pro-shoeing owners on previous eventing yards.
Just to add for @PePo and @Jessey - he is only cautious on tarmac. In the field, even when it's hard, he will happily canter (and buck) downhill, and easily trots down inclines on our sandy slopes when we're out.
I also noticed today that although he is slow, when I give him the choice of walking on the tarmac or the verge, he chooses the tarmac. Go figure.
I also noticed today that although he is slow, when I give him the choice of walking on the tarmac or the verge, he chooses the tarmac. Go figure.
@Skib I believe gravel is very popular with barefoot people as a good surface to wok them on some of the time - @Jessey and @PePo is that right?
@Jane&Ziggy I don't know how hard your ground is at the moment, but here it's so hard that the roads are a better bet because at least they're flat (well they are if you ignore the potholes
)
@Jane&Ziggy I don't know how hard your ground is at the moment, but here it's so hard that the roads are a better bet because at least they're flat (well they are if you ignore the potholes
)Barefoot has been proven to create a healthier functioning foot - which is why it can be such a powerful rehab tool.
I'm pro barefoot (but not anti shoes
) & do believe every horse could go barefoot with the correct diet, environment and workload but I do think that not every horse and owner has the time & facilities to make barefoot the right choice for them. But all things being equal, I'd certainly expect most leisure and working horses to be able cope barefootin the right set up.Mindset, (lack of) education and social norms play a part too.
There are certainly risks associated with shoeing - I'd personally not choose to shoe a horse with metabolic issues for example, as it can hide a lot of the early warning signs.
I don't think you can judge what goes on in USA with the UK, fairly. Horse keeping and accepted norms are vastly different on the whole.
@Jane&Ziggy I'm really sorry if I've panicked you - from what you've said, you're a long way off a laminitis episode but I'm a firm believer that early intervention where possible also helps.
@carthorse There's gravel and there's gravel in short. Pea gravel can be really beneficial in transitioning to barefoot, rehab or maintenance but the gravel on our forest tracks for example, is likely to be harder for them as bigger size, possibly sharper etc. P is rock crunching over most at the moment - happily canters over them - but even he will pick his way over some of our very sharp gravel tracks in sections out hacking.
Same with tarmac - some are kinder than others - but as there's little give in the tarmac it can be problematic re: concussion, especially if the foot is vulnerable in any way. Often natural ground, although hard has a bit more give in it (although, perhaps not clay in a scorching summer ...!) . Equally, tarmac can be a brilliant surface for bare foot horses for helping to encourage wear so it's all swings and roundabouts.
Like anything, if you can condition the horse over a variety of surfaces I think you'll get a healthier horse - not just in their feet but all round in their bodies & minds too.
There's so many variables in hoof care its as much an art as a science, IME. ETA: I'm absolutely not a hoof expert though by any stretch of the imagination!
we tried Buddy barefoot at age of 19 having been shod all his life. In the end he is barefoot in the field but ridden on roads in boots as he is more comfortable with them as he winces on gravel and stones, fine on grass tracks and tarmac but the minute he hits a stony path he tries to find grass to walk on if he can. As off road around here it is stony, we decided to give in and put boots on him.
yup, deep free moving gravel is used for conditioning feet, because as it moves it massages the whole foot and gives good pressure distribution. Hard compacted gravel is not great for bare tootsies, without the give its more likely to cause bruising etc.
I didn't have time to ride this morning so went out for a walk with Sid instead. His feet are breaking already: my trimmer was due on 10 August but has had to self isolate so will be a week late. Such a shame, but what can he do?
It is lovely to walk with Sid, but in order to minimise downhill on roads I went on some very narrow tracks where he can't walk beside me but has to go behind. The tracks are all overgrown with gorse, birch, oak and Sid's current favourite, sweet chestnut. It's quite impossible to stop him from snacking as we walk along. I did a little song:
Tow, tow, tow your horse
Briskly through the wood:
Nibbly nibbly nibbly nibbly
Sid cannot be good!
Surprise of the day was him eating the fallen sweet chestnut racemes of flowers straight off the ground. Waste not want not!
Still a porker, alas...
It is lovely to walk with Sid, but in order to minimise downhill on roads I went on some very narrow tracks where he can't walk beside me but has to go behind. The tracks are all overgrown with gorse, birch, oak and Sid's current favourite, sweet chestnut. It's quite impossible to stop him from snacking as we walk along. I did a little song:
Tow, tow, tow your horse
Briskly through the wood:
Nibbly nibbly nibbly nibbly
Sid cannot be good!
Surprise of the day was him eating the fallen sweet chestnut racemes of flowers straight off the ground. Waste not want not!
Still a porker, alas...
I dont think this is always so. After all on a beach we humans prefer walking on the sand to the shingle.
OH and I walk most of the bridle tracks in walking boots and may also choose to walk on the grass.
Plus she was completely willing to canter for me last week both in a habitual canter place and also when we struck off across the meadows where I steer her along the path and avoid the grass verges. Otherwise you get path erosion. And wet grass is too slippy for safe canters.
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