BHS says ok to whip & spur horses?!

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macavity

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Jul 30, 2009
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Has anyone read YOUR HORSE magazine article (august) on BHS using (allowing) whips and spurs to punish horses in competition?

The NHTEC a BRC riding club asked the BHS to change the rule to ban punishment with whips and spurs - but YOUR HORSE said the BHS think it is OK to PUNISH horses with whips and spurs for non-performance in competition...

they wont allow excessive use (nice of them!!) or allow us to whack a horse by raising ones arm above the shoulder - but will allow a horse (who does not perform) to be punished with violence...stabbed in the ribs or whacked.

Are BHS saying therefore we can ONLY train horses with FORCE?:eek::eek::eek:

I think this is terribly wrong - what century are we living in? Horses are ridden for our pleasure...WE MUST NEVER FORGET THIS - 9 times out of 10 the reason they dont 'perform' is because of pilot error (as in Harry Meade at Burghley jumping his exhausted horse) under the BHS rules if Harry had beaten his horse whilst it was jammed in the fence - for not 'performing' i.e. getting over the jump, he would not be PENALISED! Nor when the horse was lying on the ground recovering - within the rules - he could have whacked it for being non-performance!! He would have been ALLOWED!

BE would not have allowed it I am sure, but how ridiculous that in the UK we dont have a mandatory rule?! for something so serious...as abuse in competition.

sickening but true... Of course Harry wouldnt have done such a thing - but I use this example to highlight the need for change!

What do you all think competitors, mums should we be teaching our kids to pick up whips - violence??? pleasure riders? Natural horsmanship people we are all custodians of horses what do we say do! about this.

;)
if you feel BHS are wrong tell them!
 
A whip used correctly should NOT be violent. A tap behind the girth with a whip if the horse ignores the leg is much better than continued kicking! But perhaps we should ban riders' legs as they can be used violently!;)
 
*sigh* can of worms...
I agree with it being used as a form of punishment, obviously not excessively, but a horse must understand that running out at a dangerous fence, putting both it's and the rider's life in danger, is unacceptable.
Don't agree with the Harry Meade incident, though 3 day eventers are under a lot of pressure to finish the course...
 
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Ban whips and spurs

FastnFurious said:
A whip used correctly should NOT be violent. A tap behind the girth with a whip if the horse ignores the leg is much better than continued kicking! But perhaps we should ban riders' legs as they can be used violently!;)
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HI FAST AND FURIOUS - yes I think thats the point legs can do damage when they have spurs on the end - tapping , cease of tapping is acceptable motivation to go!

but when they make a mistake (down to us) no!

yes running out of fences - a problem dealt with in training! surely? not on the competion field - but of course you must take positive action using pressure to redirect the horse toward the jump! This is positive riding not punishment!

punishment is 'after' the event if that simplifies things?!! :D:D
 
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If you are using your spurs to stab your horse in the ribs, then it doesn't matter who you are, you're an idiot and a poor rider. However, the vast majority of the people I know who ride in spurs don't do any such thing. Same with whips - instead of a blanket ban on them, perhaps the BHS should be encouraging the organisers of affiliated competitions to clamp down on riders who over-use them.

Assuming that everyone who rides with a whip and /or spurs is training their horse by force is as ignorant as saying that everyone who practices NH is a fluffy ninny who lets their horse walk all over them.
 
The BHS code of practice says the use of the whip is permissible to "encourage the horse forwards" and "to reprimand the horse".


Lee Hackett, BHS senior welfare executive, said: "We could not support an outright ban. Whips should be used at an appropriate time with an appropriate amount of force."


The British Equestrian Federation's (BEF) Andrew Finding added: "As long as the whip is used in line with the recommendations of the individual bodies of the BEF I don't see a problem."


This is the article I saw in horse and hound, I think that is slightly different than saying they advocate violence, unless it has been published somewhere else.
 
macavity said:
yes running out of fences - a problem dealt within training not on the competion field - but of course you take action using pressure to redirect the horse toward the jump! This is positive riding not punishment!
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Macavity, perhaps you should offer to give Harry Meade a riding lesson. i bet he's never considered using leg pressure to direct a horse towards a jump....
 
pedilia said:
The BHS code of practice says the use of the whip is permissible to "encourage the horse forwards" and "to reprimand the horse".


Lee Hackett, BHS senior welfare executive, said: "We could not support an outright ban. Whips should be used at an appropriate time with an appropriate amount of force."


The British Equestrian Federation's (BEF) Andrew Finding added: "As long as the whip is used in line with the recommendations of the individual bodies of the BEF I don't see a problem."


This is the article I saw in horse and hound, I think that is slightly different than saying they advocate violence, unless it has been published somewhere else.
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But they do say ''reprimand''....
 
Oh, and think how far you'd get educating and schooling a horse without a whip or a pair of spurs. I don't think it'd be that easy.
I for one would be lost without them!
 
But what about situations such as some horses who back off a fence in a sj competition - something they might not do at home in a relaxed atmosphere? A well timed tap on the shoulder, or on the rump with a whip can encourage them forwards which in turns gives them confidence. Likewise some horses respond well to spurs, when a competant rider is using them...OBVIOUSLY they shouldn't be allowed as a form of punishment only, or to beat and jab the horse: perhaps what is more necessary, rather than a ban, is careful policing by event stewards/judges etc, who if they are to see excessive use, should have the right to offer the rider to cease, to retire, or to give up the stick or spurs for the remaining competition (if in collecting ring - if in the comp ring already, they should be stopped).

I've stewarded for my RC at varying events, and whenever we come across behaviour like that (and I have to say, it's rarely at members only events - more often the 'open' events) we are expected to stop it. If I as a younger member stewarding, don't feel comfortable asking them to stop, I report to an older member who is organising, and they instead will take the situation in hand...

ETA: I agree it sounds wooley - but I haven't read the article so not sure which parts are directly quoted, nor am I reading in context so wouldn't like to comment further :o
 
–noun 1. a severe reproof or rebuke, esp. a formal one by a person in authority.

–verb (used with object) 2. to reprove or rebuke severely, esp. in a formal way.
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This is what the dictionary has to say on the word. Not woolly to my way of thinking. Severe leaves no room for the imagination.
 
its rather like the smacking argument with children. A smack, as in a slap with an open hand, on a child's bottom or hand, is a completely different kettle of fish from taking off your belt and beating a child black and blue with the buckle end.

If my horse goes to run out at a SJing comp, and i give her a smack with my whip, and then she sorts herself out and jumps as she has been taught to do, there's nothing wrong with that. If I sit there, in the middle of the ring and wallop her over and over and over again before I even represent her, then that's abuse (and i ought to be eliminated, if the judges are on the ball).

If the governing bodies say that no-one is allowed to use a whip under any circumstances, then it doesnt give the judges any room for personal repsonsibility. what about the rider with a slightly dodgy right leg, who needs the whip to back it up? What about my horse who ALWAYS ducks out to the left, which can be avoided if I simply hold my whip in my left hand?
 
macavity said:
Has anyone read YOUR HORSE magazine article (august) on BHS using (allowing) whips and spurs to punish horses in competition?

The NHTEC a BRC riding club asked the BHS to change the rule to ban punishment with whips and spurs - but YOUR HORSE said the BHS think it is OK to PUNISH horses with whips and spurs for non-performance in competition...

they wont allow excessive use (nice of them!!) or allow us to whack a horse by raising ones arm above the shoulder - but will allow a horse (who does not perform) to be punished with violence...stabbed in the ribs or whacked.

Are BHS saying therefore we can ONLY train horses with FORCE?:eek::eek::eek:

I think this is terribly wrong - what century are we living in? Horses are ridden for our pleasure...WE MUST NEVER FORGET THIS - 9 times out of 10 the reason they dont 'perform' is because of pilot error (as in Harry Meade at Burghley jumping his exhausted horse) under the BHS rules if Harry had beaten his horse whilst it was jammed in the fence - for not 'performing' i.e. getting over the jump, he would not be PENALISED! Nor when the horse was lying on the ground recovering - within the rules - he could have whacked it for being non-performance!! He would have been ALLOWED!

BE would not have allowed it I am sure, but how ridiculous that in the UK we dont have a mandatory rule?! for something so serious...as abuse in competition.

sickening but true... Of course Harry wouldnt have done such a thing - but I use this example to highlight the need for change!

What do you all think competitors, mums should we be teaching our kids to pick up whips - violence??? pleasure riders? Natural horsmanship people we are all custodians of horses what do we say do! about this.

;)
if you feel BHS are wrong tell them!
Click to expand...

WTF. I was all for BHS untill I read this! (They gave me a free 'First Horse' infomation pack.)
 
Hi all, personally don't want to use a whip or spurs.. Would like to be able to build such a partnership with the horse to achieve my aims without the use of whips and spurs. But I guess that would be in a perfect world.

Do the BHS teach how how to use whips and spurs during their training?

Also I wonder if anyone has challenged their approach under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 or for that matter it would be interesting to see if the BHS would openly support prosecution against someone who was guilty of Animal Cruelty.
 
I think everyone should return to the origional points made. The BHS were asked for a blanket ban on the use of stick, this would put them at odds with BE, BSJA etc. A stick used as a 'reprimand' is not a punishment with violence.

It is bizzarre that the BHS are always cited by those claiming it is 'for 'punishment sticks etc'. How many of these people would complain about the BHS extensive series of education with Kelly Marks?
 
eml said:
I think everyone should return to the origional points made. The BHS were asked for a blanket ban on the use of stick, this would put them at odds with BE, BSJA etc. A stick used as a 'reprimand' is not a punishment with violence.

It is bizzarre that the BHS are always cited by those claiming it is 'for 'punishment sticks etc'. How many of these people would complain about the BHS extensive series of education with Kelly Marks?
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I agree. I don't actually think the word 'reprimand' has hugely strong connotations (certainly less so than 'punish'), despite the dictionary definition. I can understand the circumstances in which you might use a stick as a 'reprimand' (although admittedly not spurs). I guess that makes me a horse abuser :rolleyes: ;)
 
i dont agree with using whips or spurs. if you have a good rapport with the horse you shouldnt need to use them. a kind word or a gentle pat works wonders. the horse is all to often expected to do things that he/ she has the sense to know is too much for them to do, or it is causing them discomfort or pain. unfortuneately, they are all too often expected to do more and more, irregardless.
 
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