Am I overthinking my spooky horse?

[Philosopycat]

Hi everyone. My lovely 12yo French Trotter has refused to let me mount her for at least 6 weeks now (swings her bum out, steps backwards/forwards etc.). I have had the vet out, who could find nothing wrong. Then I had a brilliant trainer out, who spent time trying to figure it out - she couldn’t see any physical problems or evidence of pain, and recommended taking things reaaallly sloooow in trying to mount so as not to stress my girl out. I managed to get on her last week - after at least an hour of super-slow attempts. I tried again a couple of days ago and got on, but she really panicked and I jumped off quickly.

I am starting to wonder whether this behaviour has something to do with construction work that started on the yard owners’ house about the same time she stopped letting me mount. Has anyone had experience of this? Or of left-field things that changed your horse’s behaviour? Did things go back to normal once the situation went back to normal? I don’t want to force my girl to do anything if she is really stressed out by the building work, and would be fine to wait for it to finish before bringing her back into work. That said, she behaves this way even when the builders aren’t actually there (e.g. the weekend) - but of course she can still see all their scary equipment.

I’m really flummoxed. Will be getting a chiropractor out in the new year but I really don’t think this is physical. Help!

 

[Mary Poppins]

I would be interested to know more about what the vet did to come to the conclusion nothing was wrong. Kissing spines comes to mind and I wonder if her back has been x-rayed?

If you are satisfied the vet has done a thorough job, I would be looking to get a good physio out to give her a full MOT. You are right that this could be purely behavioural, but in my experience when a horse changes behaviour like this, 9 out of 10 times it is pain related.

 

[Doodle92]

Mine started becoming difficult to mount. Turned out his hocks were bothering him. Started at not even 1/10 off on one back leg. To really uncomfortable on both backs, dragging toes, in 2 weeks. (One week off, one ride where he dumped me and vet back in 3 days after). He also had ulcers which we discovered after treating his hocks which improved but he was still unhappy. The first sign his ulcers were back was him moving away from block.

 

[chunky monkey]

Have you tried walking the horse out tacked up. Then getting on a mile away. Is the horse happy to be led out in hand or does he start to panic and spook about things.

 

[Philosopycat]

I would be interested to know more about what the vet did to come to the conclusion nothing was wrong. Kissing spines comes to mind and I wonder if her back has been x-rayed?

If you are satisfied the vet has done a thorough job, I would be looking to get a good physio out to give her a full MOT. You are right that this could be purely behavioural, but in my experience when a horse changes behaviour like this, 9 out of 10 times it is pain related.

She hasn’t been x-rayed - I should get that done I know. She shows no signs of pain at all though - even to eyes much more experienced than mine. But horses are stoic.

 

[Philosopycat]

Have you tried walking the horse out tacked up. Then getting on a mile away. Is the horse happy to be led out in hand or does he start to panic and spook about things.

Thanks - she is ok being led out actually. She likes me at her eye level and we have good chats. I haven’t tried getting on at a distance from the yard . Good idea - thanks

 

[Philosopycat]

Mine started becoming difficult to mount. Turned out his hocks were bothering him. Started at not even 1/10 off on one back leg. To really uncomfortable on both backs, dragging toes, in 2 weeks. (One week off, one ride where he dumped me and vet back in 3 days after). He also had ulcers which we discovered after treating his hocks which improved but he was still unhappy. The first sign his ulcers were back was him moving away from block.

Thanks. There’s so much that could be wrong with her - esp given her stoicism. I find it all overwhelming and very frustrating - but mostly worried about her. Think I need to get the vet out again.

 

[carthorse]

I feel your frustration. Mine can be difficult to mount, and there's absolutely no touching of reins allowed - but the second I'm on he'll stand like a rock and is completely unbothered. Yours sounds different, the fact that she felt so panicked when you got on would make me want to do more investigations. Mine is better if ridden, and so obviously mounted, most days, so this last month when my riding has been less the problem has got worse again.

If she's really stressed by what's going on in and around the yard that isn't going to help because you aren't starting with a calm horse. That said how long do you leave it and how many allowances do you make for things like that? Sometimes if it isn't a physical problem they need to learn to cope - some compromise may be needed - because if you hack you can never guarantee that they won't come across a situation that's unsettling.

How long have you had her? Because if it's a fair while and this is new behaviour I really would wonder why. Is she like it if someone else goes to get on when you aren't in sight? There could be an element of evasion because she knows it works, or if you're being very careful you could be inadvertently creating or reinforcing the behaviour. Is she a busy type who wants to get on with the job? I've had those before and if you're slow or faffy they get very impatient and act up - I know people will say they need to learn to stand and wait but that can be a long job for a confident rider and the idea of breaking it down into slow steps just adds to their "problem". Have you had the saddle checked?

 

[Trewsers]

It could be the construction work that has been going on, as you say even when the builders aren't there, the cement mixers / scaffold etc will be. Hmm. It could be that - but as already said, I would rule out pain by getting her checked once again. I too like @Doodle92 have a horse that (she's now retired) was diagnosed with hock problems. She started showing signs and trying to tell me, I heard her and we got them treated and for a while the treatment worked (but that's a long story!). Even though your vet has checked her over, I'd be tempted to ask again and see about a thorough look over. I'm not very clued up on "back people" but if your vet can recommend one then that's worth doing too. I hope you can find out the cause and treat it, whether it's fear and unsettlement due to the work going on, or pain related.

 

[Skib]

I am confused by this thread. A horse is usually spooked by something it can see or hear, and usually in the distance. Lowering the head of the horse reduces the distance at which it can focus on things. At one point the RS allocated me a spooky horse to ride and though I never enjoyed her, the secret was to lower the head after mounting and while hacking.

 

[Trewsers]

I am confused by this thread. A horse is usually spooked by something it can see or hear, and usually in the distance. Lowering the head of the horse reduces the distance at which it can focus on things. At one point the RS allocated me a spooky horse to ride and though I never enjoyed her, the secret was to lower the head after mounting and while hacking.

That's not always true. Horses (rightly or wrongly) can associate objects with being afraid, thus causing what is classed as a spook. Took Storm ages to "forget" the area bast*rd neighbour at old house had a cement mixer (on my land I hasten to add!) and she would look and look at that area as we rode past for quite some time. So not always something they can actually see or hear.

 

[carthorse]

Exactly @Trewsers , and for good measure there's the ones who get very looky at "monsters" but then have a meltdown when the monster has gone! Presumably because they can no longer see it it's waiting in ambush somewhere

@Skib horses will also spook at smells and noises, it isn't all about sight. And as @Trewsers has pointed out there's spooking by association too. A horse with a naturally low head carriage is not necessarily any calmer than one with a naturally high one, a lot of it is down to conformation, and even if you get a stressed horse to lower it's head it won't calm it (it's been proven that the old belief that lowering the head carriage lowers adrenaline is wrong) though I guess there may be some relaxation if it makes the rider calmer because they believe the horse is calmer.

 

[Skib]

I was not taught that lowering the head lowers adrenaline. Or calms me or the horse.
I was taught that the way a horse's eye focuses is quite limited. That the head position determines the focus distance that the horse sees at that point. So the lower position is for close up and eating, the upper position for distance.
I have only ever ridden one spooky horse and I did that because the RS rider who loved him told me to keep his head low. And it fitted what I had been taught by Mark Rashid too. Budiansky definitely says that a horse may need to move its head up or down to bring an object into sharp detail.
Those of you who own horses dont need all this book knowledge and it seems that it may not fit your horses. But we RS riders who ride a variety of horses, need to try text book solutions.
Ella's only slight spooks to date have been at heavy horses seen distant on the horizon. So when I see them now I tend to lower her head. Whereas in the early days I shortened the rein and kicked her on, which had the effect of raising her head.

 

[carthorse]

@Skib I would say those of us who own horses are often more interested in having a wide field of knowledge since we can't rely on other people to sort out problems we have with our horses! And just because we own doesn't mean we don't ride or handle other horses too. I guess it depends on if you need to apply text book solutions to a horse and hope it works, or if you have sufficient feel to read a horse and the experience to respond in a suitable way to what the horse is telling you and also it's personality.

 

[Doodle92]

I don’t think any horse has read the text books. Also no 2 horses are the same or will react the same. Take Minto and Robin. Both spook at the same things. The way to ride Minto was to stop, let him have a look, focus on the scarey thing, take time to walk up to it, sniff it, stand for a while longer and then he has worked out the issue and that he is not scared of whatever it is. If I took this routine with Robin he would get worse and worse. If I focus on something and try to get him to look and access it then clearly (in his mind) there is a huge problem as I am telling him there is a problem by focusing. With him, you bend the other way, take his notice away from the problem, look away yourself and carry on as if nothing is there. Quite often saying out loud “don’t even look at it”. This reassures him there isn’t an issue cos I am not worried which is good enough for him and we carry on. I’m general if Robin is getting tense and upset, or just having an excited ride, I have to ride him, keep supporting leg and hand and basically tell him I am there and I’m with him all the way. Minto you had to sit very very quiet and not move. This method freaks Robin out.

When they see something and the head shoots up, the ears prick forwards and their whole body goes rigid, I could force the head down but all that will do is produce a tight tense horse who is now in rolkeur, with no contact in your hand and likely to erupt.

They also remember what was there the last time, or last year and Robin does (as has been mentioned) seem to remember something was there, now it is not there, and so the monster can move and so may move and get him.

This is why I dislike purely learning from
Books. You have to treat every horse as an individual, from riding school horses to top competition horses. But I agree that is difficult to learn and feel without actually doing.

 

[Skib]

Well I dont own a horse and I know nothing. As is clear. If I knew as much as carthorse, no doubt j too wojld be paid.

 

[carthorse]

Well I dont own a horse and I know nothing. As is clear. If I knew as much as carthorse, no doubt j too wojld be paid.

Skib you're the one who, again, has started by patronising the op and other people and yet again reeling off books and names as though that's all that matters. Saying that people who own horses don't need this knowledge - really, what are you thinking? You'd be offended if an owner implied all riding school horses are idiot proof plods yet it's ok for you to indirectly insult owners?

One thing is absolutely sure with horses, there is no one solution suits all and it's up to us to work out how to work with a horse to get the best out of it or in some cases have the honesty to say an individual is beyond us and carefully move it on - not aimed at anyone here!

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I agree with @Doodle92 . I've only had two of my own horses to get to know and ride, but their reaction to scary things is quite different. Ziggy wanted to be reassured and given time to inspect the thing and come to agreement with me that it was OK. Sid is like Robin, the more time you give him to look, the worse he gets.

 

[PePo]

OP I'd strongly recommend reinvestigating physical causes.

Has she had her saddle checked recently? Teeth?

If she was my horse and teeth, tack etc was fine I'd be re-speaking to the vet and pushing for a bute trial at the very least.

Have you considered keeping a diary? What can seem really random is actually less so when you can look back and see patterns correlating to something- time of year, time of diary, weather conditions affecting sugar or potassium in grass, new batch of hay ....

If you're sure it's not physical, I'd highly recommend looking into Lyla Cansfield. She runs online & in person training with courses for owners with spooky horses and how to get a better connection to help overcome this.

In the general terms of conversation, P sometimes needs time to process and if you try to ride him through it, good luck to you P also sometimes needs to be largely ignored whilst sympathetically ridden on and he gets over it.

You can feel which it is - in P's case in the first instance the important thing is that there is no pressure - physical or emotional - from the rider as it immediately puts him over his emotional threshold to process and he blows up big time quickly. We stop, drop the reins and give him the time he needs (blooming terrifying the first time as it goes against all instinct and there is *always* a 'Hope I've read this right otherwise there's every chance I'll be on the floor' moment ) . He'll walk on when he's processed and he's unlikely to spook again at it

In the second, he prances, dances and snorts but us unlikely to do anything actually dangerous providing you don't try to over ride him to get.him.past.it. Just sitting their quietly with a 'Come on partner, it's okay' approach and not offending him is usually enough.

As a horse owner I try to keep up to date with modern theories of equine science & welfare as it's a topic I find fascinating. Understanding of horse behaviour and welfare are evolving all the time and what was relevant 24 years ago, may not hold quite so true today but I've not read the book in question so can't comment fully on that one.