Why are some people so anti-barefoot???

[Melting Moments]

that applies to my boy, he is perfectly sound and happy with shoes on, why do I want to go and take them off and make him readjust completely at 9yrs old? I've had a horse with no shoes, just fronts, and all 4. My boy has hardy feet, so I could go barefoot - I just simply don't have the desire to.

Your horse has had them for years, I am talking about people who have never had them and then decided oh they must get them.

 

[Melting Moments]

I agree with Wally.

I think that barefoot peep can be very OTT and intense and can get peoples backs up.

I also agree with her comments that not any horse can go barefoot.

Not only that I know of trimmers who are not allowed to have anything to do with shoes. They promote the barefoot is best line and if the horse does need to be shod for any reason then you need to go to a farrier to have this done and when they then want to go back to barefoot they would then need to go back to the trimmer. A good farrier and a good trimmer will generally have a full client list so how practical is that?

I maybe wrong but I don't think that a traimmer is ALLOWED to qualify as a farrier and practice both. If this is this case (as I say I'm not entirely sure) then I can't be doing with anything that is that closed minded about factors that affect the horses well being.

I didn't say any horse can go barefoot, If you horse needs shoes, he needs them simple as that.

 

[Melting Moments]

Ignorance mostly.



Very true... but you could also argue that many are shod 'just because' and could easily manage without. The are plenty of horses that are probably perfectly capable of doing without shoes given a reasonable period to adapt and a possible tweak in diet.

Just because a horse struggles on certain surfaces or can't grow foot quickly enough doesn't automatically mean it has to be shod either. The continuing improvements in the design of hoof boots make them a valid alternative in many situations.

Any thinking farrier will tell you a hoof is better off without a shoe nailed to it. Shoes have their pros and cons, just the same as going without does.

This is basically what i was trying to say.

 

[Joyscarer]

I can't see why a trimmer could not become an apprentice and do the full training, but they might find it difficult to get in if the farriers knew they were a trimmer - it does seem to be a very closed shop affair.

I think if people directly asked their trimmers if they would be allowed to train as a farrier and still be a member of their trimming association then the answer would be no

I would love to have that confirmed by other asking their trimmers that question or whether the response to mine was a one of from one person in one association.

However, I was actually thinking about things working the other way around were a farrier is intersted in undergoing training to become a member of a trimming association

I didn't say any horse can go barefoot, If you horse needs shoes, he needs them simple as that.

When did I say you said that? Why are you quoting me

 

[Yann]

I think if people directly asked their trimmers if they would be allowed to train as a farrier and still be a member of their trimming association then the answer would be no

I would think it would be difficult for any person of mature age to get accepted as an apprentice. Not only that but given that the philosophy behind trimming is to do away with shoes I'm not sure what the motivation would be for anyone who had put themselves through all the training to want to quite frankly. However if someone did train to be a farrier, not being part of a trimming association would have little impact on them. But then they'd be able to join as a farrier, so it doesn't really arise does it?

However, I was actually thinking about things working the other way around were a farrier is intersted in undergoing training to become a member of a trimming association

At least one (UKNHCP) has farriers as members and a farrier induction programme, so this already happens

 

[Joyscarer]

Not only that but given that the philosophy behind trimming is to do away with shoes I'm not sure what the motivation would be for anyone who had put themselves through all the training to want to quite frankly. However if someone did train to be a farrier, not being part of a trimming association would have little impact on them. But then they'd be able to join as a farrier, so it doesn't really arise does it?

Unusually I find myself respectfully disagreeing with you which is scary teritory

Is the motivation being trimming to do away with shoes completely? Do those swapping to trims say 'never again' to shoes?

More to the point, how many of us have a mixture of needs? Either horses shod on the fronts only and trimmed on the rear or one horse shod and the other barefoot?

The barefoot trimming marketing machine is certainly very effective at putting down the farrier trims. Not aid out load perhaps but imparted to clients to be passed on. Given that there are some blooming awful old fashioned farriers out there that are either anti barefoot or not up to date with their education then I'm not sure how quickly changes in the apprenticeship to become a farrier or the need to bring in continuous education for those already qualified will impact on perception?

I seem to remember a time when it was normal for a horse just to be shod for the season and then barefoot when not required. I think thwere's a lot to be said for that and I wonder if this is seeing a resurgence in popularity?

Also I do think that not being apart of a trimming association does have an impact. How many times do you see on NR about trimmers being more knowledgeable, taking more time, doing a trim for barefoot reasons rather than to receive a shoe, being knowledgeable and advising on nutrician and management.

I think these are all things that a modern farriers course should be aiming towards to bridge the gap between farriers and trimmers. I personally see a market for a profesiona allround hoofcare practitioner. It used to be argued that this was the farrier. Now the extremes in views are taking hold and leaving a gap in the middle. I'd like to see a renewed confidence in the farrier and his ability to do both shoeing and trimming well

 

[Yann]

Is the motivation being trimming to do away with shoes completely? Do those swapping to trims say 'never again' to shoes?

The aim is usually to do away with the need for shoes permanently if possible, but I don't think anyone sensible would swear never to shoe their horse ever again. Most trimmers I've come across would suggest putting shoes back on if the circumstances meant the horse was better off that way for whatever reason.

The barefoot trimming marketing machine is certainly very effective at putting down the farrier trims.

I think it's the customers who have seen a dramatic improvement in their horse's feet after switching that do any putting down, not the trimmers.

I seem to remember a time when it was normal for a horse just to be shod for the season and then barefoot when not required. I think thwere's a lot to be said for that and I wonder if this is seeing a resurgence in popularity?

It is in my stable If there is a general increase in awareness about hoof health because of the barefoot thing then perhaps it will, but it sounds like an awful lot of people still see the farrier as a necessary evil to be paid as infrequently as they can get away with and judge their work on the basis of how well the shoes stay on.

I'd like to see a renewed confidence in the farrier and his ability to do both shoeing and trimming well

There are plenty that already do

Now the extremes in views are taking hold and leaving a gap in the middle

I think the opposite is actually happening personally http://www.lantra.co.uk/stakeholder...9/england/equine-barefoot-trimming-standards/

 

[tetleyteabag]

I am in no way anti-shoeing, if I felt for one minute that my boy was struggling then I would have him shod again without hesitation. I also do not preach to anyone how wonderful it is not to bang nails into my boys feet

It is just my personal preference that I would like him to be 'natural', so far his ridden work seems much better since taking his shoes off, he seems lighter to ride and trips less. I just get annoyed by the comment that get thrown around, I dont ask peoples opinion on it I just keep quiet about it because I know their feelings on it already.

It just annoys me when people feel the need to commen on things they know nothing about, I spent a long time reading up on it and didnt take the decision lightly, to me they are just being pig headed

 

[Melting Moments]

I would think it would be difficult for any person of mature age to get accepted as an apprentice. Not only that but given that the philosophy behind trimming is to do away with shoes I'm not sure what the motivation would be for anyone who had put themselves through all the training to want to quite frankly. However if someone did train to be a farrier, not being part of a trimming association would have little impact on them. But then they'd be able to join as a farrier, so it doesn't really arise does it?



At least one (UKNHCP) has farriers as members and a farrier induction programme, so this already happens

Sorry must have pressed the wrong button

 

[Wally]

A friend of mine is a WCF Dip. He is also a surgical farrier who works along side vets to correct all manner of problems in the leg and hoof.

He has done the barefoot course that everyone raves about. Podiatry or whatever they call it.

Folk seem to forget the 5 years it takes to be a farrier involves more than feet, you have to inderstand the leg, from top to bottom. Farriers spend 5 years learning about feet and legs, vets do 5 years on all animals.

When We were speaking on the subject of barefoot trimming and I asked him about the "secrests" he said that there were no secrets. "It's a common sense trim"

He is perfectly happy to do whatever the client and the horse require. He will do you a "barefoot" trim and you can try it for as long as you want, if you want shoes back on he will.

I really don't think there are many farriers who would find a basic "barefoot" trim beyond them.

 

[Wally]

Now, Ljósfaxi is a sensetive soul, he is shod when he's in work, and so long as you go about the job quietly he is a saint to shoe.

However if I put those on his feet he'd have a hissy fit, never to be seen again. The over-reach boot debacle was enough

 

[Yann]

I really don't think there are many farriers who would find a basic "barefoot" trim beyond them.

I'm sure that's the case, so why they aren't all doing what amounts to little more than a conscientious and careful job is a total mystery.

However if I put those on his feet he'd have a hissy fit, never to be seen again.

What happens if you need to poultice?

 

[Wally]

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it........It may well need sedation by the vet, something that most barefooters would find inconvenient at the bet of times just to get a sensetive horse to accept boots.

 

[Clava]

I'm sure that's the case, so why they aren't all doing what amounts to little more than a conscientious and careful job is a total mystery.

I like my farrier who is very pro barefoot, but I mentioned a mustang roll one day and he didn't know what I was talking about...but with my pony who has very thick hood walls I can really see how it would benefit the shape of them. He does a careful and good job which apprears balanced and level but without any of the extra stuff, a couple of minutes rounding the edges would make to hooves look perfect and ready to go (without chipping) but he doesn't do it. Not wishing to put his back up I haven't persued it...yet.

 

[Joyscarer]

My farrier is good and always happy to discuss. He's bund more of a roll on if he could see they needed it or if I asked him too.


One question though, why is it that a farrier trim seems to be a touch longer than one done by trimmer?

 

[Yann]

but with my pony who has very thick hood walls I can really see how it would benefit the shape of them

You can always add that yourself I'm thinking as much about the balance and flare removal as anything else, they're what usually makes the difference between an OK trim from a really good one.

I'm not aware that acceptance of hoof boots is an issue for the majority of owners, not if the horse is already OK with having its feet and legs handled. There will always be exceptions of course, but I would imagine some progressive desensitisation work might help in most cases.

 

[TiggerthePony]

I wondered what Lily would would think of her boots, she didn’t seem to even be aware they were on, I walked her around for ages nudging her saying oi look... ;-)

I think you get a lot of people who like the barefoot way and feel every horse should be barefoot and preach about it and this can put people off – although I think if horse can go barefoot it should I also realise some just can’t.

I use an EP who if he thinks the horse should have shoes he will say so – I think all trimmers should have this attitude, I have come across ones who will be all for barefoot no matter what and sometimes it will not be in the horses best interests. There are some trimmers who are not so good I have come across them and they did put me off, I was really hesitant when first using the one I have now but he did say I didn’t have to pay if I wasn’t happy!!

Boots have come on a long long way just in a couple of years.

Sadly there are farriers that don’t want to do the trim as it’s a trip out for only £20!

I use an EP for my laminitic mare who is great, I use a farrier for Tigger and all the other ponies, she comes up every 8 weeks and trims them all and is great.

 

[Clava]

One question though, why is it that a farrier trim seems to be a touch longer than one done by trimmer?

Yes, I asked him about how Belle's feet were before putting shoes on her fronts after a year without shoes....he thought the heels were a bit short, whereas comments on here have suggested they were a little long. She also self trimmed to a generally shorter length than when shod, but this did help her tripping enormously.

You can always add that yourself

I could, but he always does Woody as his feet grow so fast and I didn't want him to think I was messing with them, silly I know, but this pony has had laminitis so I'd rather the farrier had a close relationship with his feet and he has really helped them in the past. Also Woody isn't used so it isn't too important in terms of workload, just an aesthetic thing in terms of how the hooves would look.

 

[Yann]

I didn't want him to think I was messing with them, silly I know

Not in the least

One question though, why is it that a farrier trim seems to be a touch longer than one done by trimmer?

Like Clava says heel height is the usual difference, along with toe length. That said I've also seen nice farrier trims where the heels have been taken shorter than I'd have liked personally, or right down to sole level.

 

[candypony]

He is perfectly happy to do whatever the client and the horse require. He will do you a "barefoot" trim and you can try it for as long as you want, if you want shoes back on he will.

I really don't think there are many farriers who would find a basic "barefoot" trim beyond them.

My farrier is just like this, all of his own horses are barefoot.
I mentioned taking my horses back shoes off and he said to me: "Why just take the backs off? Just go for them all off and see how he gets on"! We discussed it and I decided to do it. Then, when I looked into it I saw all the wonderful benefits. However, I must hasten to add that I dont agree with these "obsessive" natural horse people that seem to force the idea of unshod feet down peoples throats! Some horses need shoes. End Of.

This thread is really interesting actually as I was puzzling for a while whether to switch from my farrier to a barefoot trimmer. My farrier does a barefoot trim for me and does all the "mustang roll" and removes flare etc however I have been tempted by the trimmer for no other reason than that I feel I might get a better job out of her for his feet.
But with the farrier being £15 and the £30, I'm not sure ...
And to be honest, after much thought, I dont think that there is much problem with just having a farrier to do my trimming as he does a slightly different trim when doing his unshod feet to when he does a trim for shoes.

Also...what about the benefits of having a farrier? If I ever need fronts putting on for any reason, then hes there to do it ... if I get the trimmer, I have to then find a farrier for fronts and then go back to this "unthinkable" rolleyes "farrier" trim for his back feet!