Whoops... what would you do RE fat horse?

Rubic

Rubic

Equine Karaoke Queen
Apr 15, 2012
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Glasgow
So tonight was yard meeting.

We were talking about fields and stables etc and it sounds like farmer is planning on converting a small barn into 2 pony stables. I was saying if they are cheaper then Rubic is technically a pony at 14.2hh. Friend said her highland is a pony at 13.3/14hh... (now before I type what I said owner always talks about how huge her pony is so I honestly didn't think she'd be upset/take offence, the conversation was going down the lines of a bit of banter - as much as Rubic is technically a pony I wouldn't put her in a small, pony-sized stable)... I replied "she is a pony in height but perhaps not in width" conversation went downhill much further when YM said the horse's bum was scarily huge...

Owner really started to take offence and was saying she'd never dream of saying anything about anyone else's horses weight unless it was nice and we shut up. The thing is though that this horse really is morbidly obese and definitely a 5 condition score.

We then went on to talk about wormers and YM said we should all weight tape to check we are definitely dosing right. Highland owner said she thought he horse would be about 500kg. YM then told her she might be shocked at what the weight tape said as her horse was about 480kg and I said about Rubic being 525 at one point but 455 now. Anyway, again owner seemed to be offended that we were saying her horse was overweight. She started saying, well if you put her next to another highland you wouldn't see a difference. She turned to me and said "you saw the ones at blair, you know what they are like" and I said that none were as big as hers.

I feel bad but at the same time I honestly think that this horse is seriously at risk of some major health problems. She is hardly ridden (not that she has to be ridden but to not have any exercise at all and be left to get that obese...) and owner bought a grazing muzzle and didn't even try it on her horse before she sold it, she started bringing the horse in during the day but decided she didn't want to muck out in the summer so changed her mind and left her out (but even when she was in she was getting 2 haynets full of good rich hay).

I get the feeling that she won't take anything I say on board after this. I do feel guilty about what was said tonight however I do think the owner needs a bit of a kick to do something.

I have a feeling I might just need to take a step back now unless anyone has any bright ideas!?
 
Eek. I'm sorry Rubic but I would probably be quite offended by your words aswell. I will put my head above the parapet here and say that i struggle when folk call horses fat. I feel instantly defensive - I am constantly reminded of my horse's size by my field mate, she is always posting derogatory remarks on fb and makes little comments. It gets a bit wearing. Now yes, there is no excuse for a fat horse....but it's a constant battle to find the best way to manage. I think it's probably related to my own fat problems so I shouldn't project but I would never walk around openly saying 'your kid is fat, he needs to lose weight' so I don't feel I would do it to other folks about their horse.
I think the other thing is that it is a slight on my ability to manage my horse and calls into question the care I give him. I'm obviously not doing my job right. But again, I don't go around openly passing judgement on how people over rug, over stable, ride wrong etc, and all these things can impact a horses health (although I'm sure some will argue not as badly as weight). It's a contentious issue, your perception is that she does nothing and maybe your right, but it's always easier to see things in black and white when you're on the outside looking in.

Eta I have no problem with professionals stating the problem but in a tactful manner.
 
You could show her a photo of my cob who is overweight/fat and whom I have been informed by a vet has a good chance of getting lami if I dont get off my arse and get the weight off.
She is 464kg on the weigh tape so I dread to think what this Highland actually looks like.


To be honest people report neglect if a horse is thin, but people seem blind that a fat horse could be classed the same. So I wouldn't be offended. A fat horse can get health complications that could kill it-laminitus shouldn't be brushed under the carpet.
 
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We have had a few fat horses on our yard, I don't go out of my way to comment but when they have asked I have offered my opinion. One lady couldn't see how fat her Fjord was, the yard had organised Spillers feed to come with a weigh bridge, luckily the lady thought it was an interesting idea so got involved. She was told the horse was obese and shown on the scales how fat, so listened to the lady and has restricted her all summer. She is now perfect weight....could you organise a feed company to go to your yard with a weigh bridge?
 
with the weight issue - I'd walk away. it's her horse. I'd also try condition scoring over weight taping, I find it gives a better 'all round' (excuse the pun!!) picture :)
 
While your motives might be in the right place i have to say reading that the poor girl most likely felt ganged up on from you both,and i mean this in no offence you also got quiet upset about people making comments on your horses weight just a few weeks back.it can be a touchy subject for alot of horse owners and i have to be honest id be mightely peed off if i seen someone posting about my horse like this.
Your heart is in the rigjt place but i dont feel you went about it in a very fair way.just my opinion from someone who struggles with her horses weight :)
 
It's easy to misjudge a situation like that and perhaps the banter went a bit far this time.

My stepmum has morbidly obese horses. I will admit I have got on at her about it but she is my stepmum I can get away with it with her. It's much harder with fellow liveries and you have to be a bit more tactical about it.

Happily for my stepmums horses she has managed to get the weight right off one of them and once he has muscled up when he starts working properly he will look fabulous.

The others don't look too bad apart from one who just isn't getting the work but after a conversation with the girl that rides and a lesson on that pony she's got the confidence now to go on and ride her more and so in a few months should look like the mare that lived with me a couple of years ago.

It's hard to watch but unless you know the person incredibly well you'll always cause offence. Some people are just in denial about it. Has the vet not warned her?

Perhaps the weigh bridge idea is a good one, but I would perhaps leave it a month or so before doing it so it's not so obvious. You could just say a few of us are interested to make sure our horses on the right foot going into winter with their weights and so getting the feed company out with their weighbrige is it something you'd be interested in joining in with.
 
Last night when I thought back on it I can see how she would be upset and take offence but at the time it seemed no different from the usual banter we have. She jokes about her horses rug needing a chest expander, she jokes about the ground quaking when her horse comes in etc so I wouldn't have thought anything about a little joke with a friend. I wouldn't joke about it like that to someone else because I know it is a sensitive subject, it's not like I haven't struggled with Rubic, but I never got the impression it was a sensitive subject with her before, she never seemed bothered with it and I've known her and her horse for 2 years. When I realised she was annoyed I apologised.

A riding instructor (who does specialise in highlands) came up and said her horse was really overweight and she only had one more lesson with her. We had a dengie weight clinic at our old yard and she refused to take part because she said she knew her horse was heavy.

I suppose I'm just bewildered by the fact that her horse is obviously overweight (I've never seen a horse with such an obvious apple bum, massive crest and fat pads everywhere it is possible for a horse to get fat pads I'd definitely condition score at 5+) and she clearly can't see it/thinks it is normal. She complains about her horse misbehaving when she does ride and it wouldn't surprise me if it was weight and saddle fit issues (I asked if she'd like my saddler to take a look at hers when I was booking earlier in the year and she said no). Rubic was condition scoring at a 3.5 but her weight was a good 60-80kg over what it should be and the vets weren't happy so I did something. Yes I took comments personally and got upset (partly because I was already doing something and partly because I knew they were right and I didn't want Rubic to be fat) but I used them to spur me on to do something about it/continue what I was doing. I suppose I'm just getting frustrated just now because of everything with Rubic, the fact I was "mean" to get her to lose weight and the fact that I know I'm going to struggle to keep weight off her in the future with no exercise and it could be easy for her if she just tried! There's another 2 of us who have ponies on weightloss and we've both offered to help by bringing her in or turning out or mucking out etc but she has said no.

I'm not going to mention it again as I don't think anything I say will make any difference anymore. I feel bad I hurt her feelings but I'm equally frustrated at the fact she won't do anything. But you are all right, it is her horse and not my place, I suppose I just had to get all this out my system.
 
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I would find it difficult not to say something and would have to but I think you have to be very careful about how you put things as at the end of the day my intention would be to be helpful and hopefully bring about a change,I am not suprised she has reacted in the way she has and is less likely to do anything because of the way the subject has been approached, any further approach at this time I don't think will be helpful, you may need to stand back and let things cool a little, give her time to mull over what has been said and hopefully put things in perspective, hopefully when the right moment
arises you will both be able to have a conversation about it where you can
maybe influence some change, backing into a corner will not work, at the end of the days its her pony and her responsibity.

I think the problem with Highlands (as with many of the large Native breeds)is that production for the show ring done right produces well muscled, fit ponies, many do just pump them up and they are dangerously obese - if she has compared her to some of those at Blair - with rose tinted glasses she may think there is no issue and that fittened up her pony would look just like that- I just hope she is not unlucky enough to suffer the consequences of allowing it to continue.

the lady next door to us has a highland and it went away to her daughters for the summer for child to ride, I met her when he came back, I was taken aback at the size of him and spoke my thoughts (without thinking through shock) - she was a bit taken aback (she can be funny at best of times) - luckily I realised what I had just said and added I hope she didn't think I was being over critacal but its just that he is obviously carrying much more weight that she usually kept him at - I think thats what suprised me as normally she is so careful with him - she was fine and explained that he had been out 24/7 with 2 horses on good pasture and they weren't allowed to electric fence and only exercised a couple of days a week which I think she expected daily, she usually does, I added I am sure she will soon have him back in shape, 3 weeks on and hes trimming nicely - ridden daily and on part turnout - had I just left it with my initial outburst I don't think we would be talking! I think she got quite a shock at his appearance he was only away for 8 weeks.

We have to manage the weight on all ours very carefully, it can be so difficult
lets hope she looks at it again in the cold light of day.
 
I think you have to be careful - even when people are aware their horse might be a bit over weight. I have been on the receiving end and it isn't nice - what annoyed me was at the time my horse was NOT over weight, vet had just commented on how well she looked and was at the correct size, but a fellow livery (who obviously knew more than the vet!) said she looked fat!!! That is not the same of course, if somebody has actually got a fat horse, but even then I wouldn't offer up opinion unless asked. I think it's important that horses are kept at a healthy weight, we all know this - we know it's better for joints, lami etc, but I also think that unless you know the ins and outs of somebody's management then commenting could be the wrong thing to do. For example, my horse is now a little over what she should be, a passerby could easily say she is too big, but then again, they wouldn't know she's had 9 weeks off, has now got stiff hocks and cannot do what she used to, ergo she isn't being exercised like she used to be, so yes, the weight will have to be managed differently, and it's a slow process in getting it back off. I am having to do the walking coupled with rationing and it does take a little longer.
I guess the lady in question with her pony if it is a big one then needs to know - maybe just coming from a professional it wouldn't sound bad, if they made helpful suggestions? I go with what my vet tells me - and always take on board their comments - I wouldn't be pleased with a fellow livery telling me, I'd probably be a little bit miffed.
 
Trewsers, I think that is why I'm not going to say anything - I know I'm no vet so why should she take my opinion on board. I'd say we are a bit friendlier than just being liveries and because we are on such a small yard and we work similar hours I do know her "routine" with her horse. I'm not usually the person to say anything about stuff like that to be honest. On the last yard there were plenty of overweight horses and I never said a word but this horse just seems to be getting heavier and heavier and I felt closer to the owner (so more able to mention it) than I did to ones at the previous yard. I tried to mention it to her earlier in the year when I was talking about Rubic - she said Rubic looked fine to her but I explained about her neck looking a bit cresty and how I couldn't feel ribs so I wanted more weight off her and she didn't agree until I explained that Rubic would be better on the lean side as she puts on weight easily and it'd be better for her bad leg. I had hoped she'd maybe transfer some of that onto her horse but she didn't. I know I don't know everything and would really like to be proven wrong but I don't think I've seen another horse (in real life) as overweight as hers.
 
Rubic said:
Trewsers, I think that is why I'm not going to say anything - I know I'm no vet so why should she take my opinion on board. I'd say we are a bit friendlier than just being liveries and because we are on such a small yard and we work similar hours I do know her "routine" with her horse. I'm not usually the person to say anything about stuff like that to be honest. On the last yard there were plenty of overweight horses and I never said a word but this horse just seems to be getting heavier and heavier and I felt closer to the owner (so more able to mention it) than I did to ones at the previous yard. I tried to mention it to her earlier in the year when I was talking about Rubic - she said Rubic looked fine to her but I explained about her neck looking a bit cresty and how I couldn't feel ribs so I wanted more weight off her and she didn't agree until I explained that Rubic would be better on the lean side as she puts on weight easily and it'd be better for her bad leg. I had hoped she'd maybe transfer some of that onto her horse but she didn't. I know I don't know everything and would really like to be proven wrong but I don't think I've seen another horse (in real life) as overweight as hers.
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Yes that was a good idea using Rubic as an example to maybe think that she would take it on board.
Guess you will just have to let her get on with it now and maybe the vet will say something.
 
I think it's a complicated and (obviously!) touchy subject!

I am 'aware' of Kev's weight, I constantly try to look at him objectively, and I desperately don't want a fat horse. So, if he was overweight and someone mentioned it, I would be mortified that I hadn't noticed and would probably be getting my vet to condition score him so I could have a professional view of what I needed to do. If I felt he wasn't overweight and someone said he was then I would probably be pretty P'ed off....but I would still ask my vet/farrier about it.

Which effectively means it all comes down to owner perception, if she doesn't think her pony is fat, then she is going to be annoyed. It sounds to me like she knows it though and is just burying her head in the sand. By her getting annoyed about it, it means she doesn't have to do anything about it. Shame she isn't taking the advice of a well-meaning friend, but unfortunately theres not a lot you can do about it. That said, if my vet didn't tell me my horse was overweight I wouldn't be very happy!
 
I am hoping that perhaps she might ask the vet or someone next time he is over. The RI she got out said she'd be nice if she lost some weight as her movement would improve etc so I thought that would encourage her and it did for about 2 weeks. I think she does bury her head in the sand about it. The horse was out on loan a good few years ago but her parents were concerned something terrible would happen to her and so talked their daughter in to taking the horse back. Friend is a few years older than me and wants to go out with her friends and enjoy herself, go on holidays etc, she enjoys the odd hack or the odd schooling session but I don't think she enjoys the work and commitment having a horse involves and as a result often asks others just to check her horse in the field for her... which is perhaps why I feel more involved than maybe I should. It's not so much the not riding that bothers me (hey, I've got a field ornament now!) it's more the general lack of concern she sometimes shows and I don't know whether she just doesn't realise or chooses to ignore the truth.
 
If she gets annual jabs I would be surprised the vet hasn't said something, mine did.

I have to say I am surprised that people wouldn't mention it, or its her horse leave it. You wouldn't leave it if it was skin and bone would you? Yes weight issues can be a touchy subject, and most people having met the cob didn't notice either! She is generally a beefy lass but it shouldn't be there. Perhaps I feel different because I know it needs to come off and I am actively trying.

But I do agree with the poster who said that you yourself Rubric were upset a while back if anyone commented on Rubics weight when on box rest. So in that respect maybe the usual banter is wearing a bit thin.

Did you watch her lesson? I am just wondering how you know what the RI said? I would be a bit annoyed if mine discussed my lesson with others not present/as in sharing it with me.

How old is the owner of the horse if your mentioning parents? Is this a teenager?
 
Too fat/too skinny/lame etc, I would rather someone tell me to my face they think my horse has an issue I haven't noticed than my horse suffering because I'm too stupid to have noticed it.

My horses health is more important than my ego!
 
newforest said:
If she gets annual jabs I would be surprised the vet hasn't said something, mine did.

I have to say I am surprised that people wouldn't mention it, or its her horse leave it. You wouldn't leave it if it was skin and bone would you? Yes weight issues can be a touchy subject, and most people having met the cob didn't notice either! She is generally a beefy lass but it shouldn't be there. Perhaps I feel different because I know it needs to come off and I am actively trying.

But I do agree with the poster who said that you yourself Rubric were upset a while back if anyone commented on Rubics weight when on box rest. So in that respect maybe the usual banter is wearing a bit thin.

Did you watch her lesson? I am just wondering how you know what the RI said? I would be a bit annoyed if mine discussed my lesson with others not present/as in sharing it with me.

How old is the owner of the horse if your mentioning parents? Is this a teenager?
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No she is not a teenager, I'm 25 she is older than me.

I saw a bit of the lesson but owner herself told me and other liveries (yes she was quite open about it), what the RI had said and recommended her to the rest of the yard and a few liveries including myself have had lessons off her because of that.
 
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I would have no issue if someone told me Magic was overweight/obese. If they kept going on and on about it when they knew I was trying to do something about it I might get annoyed but not otherwise as it is easy for a bit of weight to creep on here and there that quickly adds up to an overweight horse before you've really realised.

I have the issue at my yard that Magic *is* overweight (the YO put him in a field there for a while that until fairly recently was a lawn, no grazing muzzle plus he was getting fed apples, carrots etc by them so he ballooned!!) but in my case it is the yard owner that is getting all defensive and seems to really take offense at me saying that he is overweight and she seems to think it is really awful that I plan to clip him and not rug/underrug him (depending on how much I remove) over the winter to get him to burn off some of the excess fat he's put on since he's been there.
If I hear 'he's in really good show condition' from the yard owner or one of the other liveries once more I may just throw a filled haynet at them as it's not show condition it's fat!! :banghead::banghead:

IMO an obese horse is just as much, if not more, of a welfare issue as an underweight horse.
 
Well, as you all know, I got read the riot act from my vet about Bens weight last year. I am very open with our plan to lose weight, but I hate it when other people make a joke out of him being fat. I don't know why, it just touches a nerve. I guess it is because it was my fault that I let him get so fat in the first place and any joke on his behalf makes me feel like a clueless and ignorant owner.

I never comment on any one elses horse, unless it is to say something nice. There is lots that I could say - some are nuts, some are too fat, some wear too many rugs, some never get turnout, some never go out of the school, some are never groomed, some get too much feed etc. etc. etc. but while I may privately think these thoughts, I would never speak them out loud to anyone. It is none of my business how other people keep their horses and I am true to the motto 'if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'.
 
Why not offer to exercise the pony? If really that unfit/overweight you will have to start with longreining and building them up to carry you.
Then your offering practical help, sometimes people comment that I should do and so with mine-but its empty words without the help. Telling me what I know doesn't help, but actual help is practical.
 
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