We have just taken in another schooling livery who i've been riding a bit this week. He's a 5year old 13.3/14hh rather non descript hairy little pony but he's really sweet and good to ride for his age. The guy who'se brought him over owns another horse of his own and obviously cant ride a little pony so he's asked me to take him on untill he's a bit older and more sensible for someone maybe someone younger looking for a nice pony to loan. Anyway, he's sensible enough to ride in the school and he can work nicely in walk and trot and is starting to bend and stretch down nicely but he can get strong in canter and is strong to ride out, although better with others but still strong if going faster than walk or when he knows he's coming home. Now, this isnt a problem for me but for a smaller younger less experianced child I think this might be more of a problem, obviously no one else will be riding him for a while yet but this is what we're aiming for and dont want him learning any bad manners at his young age. He came in a plain loose ring snaffle but i changed this to a french link to try and stop him leaning and pulling so much but it doesnt really seem to have made much a differance, especially out. We want to keep him in a snaffle mainly just because he's young and I think he will be easy to school out of his habbits and dont need anything stronger than a snaffle at this stage. I did consider using possible a dr.bristol but im not sure it might be too strong for him straight away after a plain snaffle, im worride it might be too much too soon but I can't really think of anything else siutable. So, any suggestions will be really gratefully accepted. Thanks. YL xx
what bit would you suggest?
- Thread starter Yorkshire_Lass
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a pony at my yard, exactly like the one you described (14hh hairy 5 year old, good to ride but a bit strong - i think they're twins) goes in a roller mouth snaffle
I'd say carry on as you are for now. If you're riding him regularly & schooling properly then you should be able to school him out of it by the time he comes to be loaned out.
That was the plan Helenc but as he's getting fitter he's starting to get dangerously strong to ride out, especially on his own and on the roads. He's starting to be a bit of a handful to keep calm in the school and fields, and although I havn't done much jumping with him ,I dont really want to do any more until i've got something more suitable sorted out.
Roller mouth...i think that might be a good one to try, dont know why i didnt think of it actually as I ride my own horse in one. I will have to try and dig out a smaller one for Kez though, thanks horseaholic.
Yl x
Roller mouth...i think that might be a good one to try, dont know why i didnt think of it actually as I ride my own horse in one. I will have to try and dig out a smaller one for Kez though, thanks horseaholic.
Yl x
Dr Bristol or a Hanging cheek snaffle. A Dr Bristol isn't that bad!!!! my old pony went like a dream in one, don't discount them
how does he resist when he gets strong? perhaps change noseband, try a drop or a flash? if he's going to be sold as a child's ride, then keeping him ina 'normal' snaffle will be a bonus when you advertise him - prosepctive buyers are more scared of fancy bits than nosebands. also i think it's easier to change back from a noseband than back to a lighter bit - the noseband can genuinely only come into force when he tugs on you or opens his mouth to pull, whereas a strong bit feels different in the mouth at all the contact.
my youngster went really well in a vulcanite Pelham' they are really kind bits iff you only use a strap not a chain' she doesn't pull at all now and I can ride on the buckle most of the time' I have the one with a really short shank and ride on the kerb' I was taught that a snaffle is not a kind bit as you will see iff you put it round you bare arm and let someone else pull on it' at least with a rubber or vulcanite pelham it doesn't pinch either the sides of the mouth or go into the roof of the mouth'
i have to disagree, i think vulcanite pelhams are awful and are pretty strong bits, probably worse than a plain metal pelham. and you should always use a pelham with double reins. with a youngster i'd try to stick with a snaffle if at all possible.
The problem is Es he doesn't open his mouth at all he just gets ignores you trying to pull him back. I personally dont find him too muh of a problem to ride as I know he's still young it's just going be hard to school him out of his habbits if he doesnt respect the bit, and we need him to as we will be looking for someone smaller, probably a child, to loan or buy him so we need him to be a bit less of a handful. eventerbabe I dont really see what differance ahanging cheek will make, its no stronger just uses a bit of poll pressure and this isnt what he needs. I'm not discounting a dr bristol, just would rather find a snaffle he can go in nicely as it will be hard to ever take him out of a dr bristol if he gets used to something so strong as a normal snaffle will be really light to him. And i agree about trying to keep a youngster in a snaffle if poss.
YL xx
YL xx
Y
Yann
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How do you work that one out? So long as the bit isn't too thick for the horses mouth then it will be less severe than a thinner metal mouth. I can only assume that's what you mean.
Used with an elastic curb I agree that a rubber or vulcanite pelham isn't a particularly strong combination and the curb action can encourage relaxation of the jaw. If it's just for general use roundings will ensure that the curb isn't over used by inexperienced hands, this is a pony after all.
coz they are horrid thick bulky things. my PC pony came to me with one and i threw it away and put him in a Dr Bristol (under instruction from my teacher, a BHSI) then stuck with that or a jointed eggbutt for dressage. i hate the use of roundings aswell as its pulling on both rings. double reins are the best option for pelhams.
i suggested a hanging cheek coz my horse can get very strong and my instructor suggested we try it. he goes very well in it (having been in a jointed metal pelham with double reins). having read your posts again i think its a lack of manners. i'd be very concerned about letting a child on him. doesn't sound like he's an ideal childs pony, maybe more suitable for a small adult.
i suggested a hanging cheek coz my horse can get very strong and my instructor suggested we try it. he goes very well in it (having been in a jointed metal pelham with double reins). having read your posts again i think its a lack of manners. i'd be very concerned about letting a child on him. doesn't sound like he's an ideal childs pony, maybe more suitable for a small adult.
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has he had his teeth checked ?
My chap used to do this (before he retired) and its mainly a question of lots and lots of half-halts.
Not sure a snaffle with cheek pieces will help with leaning/pulling. But a hanging/baucher might do.
The joints versus straight bar questions depends an awful lot on the horse's mouth and training. Bits work on pressure on various areas - including the tongue. So there is less pressure if the bit "rounds" to the mouth. A mullen mouth "straight" bar does this, but the joints in a snaffle also allow this to a degree - a french link more than a single joint. Of course, badly used either style is going to cause problems.
And don't forget the bits are also acting on the bars, lips, chin (if a curb), poll etc etc
so IMHO it is overly simplistic to judge a bit simply on its mouthpiece....
My chap used to do this (before he retired) and its mainly a question of lots and lots of half-halts.
Not sure a snaffle with cheek pieces will help with leaning/pulling. But a hanging/baucher might do.
The joints versus straight bar questions depends an awful lot on the horse's mouth and training. Bits work on pressure on various areas - including the tongue. So there is less pressure if the bit "rounds" to the mouth. A mullen mouth "straight" bar does this, but the joints in a snaffle also allow this to a degree - a french link more than a single joint. Of course, badly used either style is going to cause problems.
And don't forget the bits are also acting on the bars, lips, chin (if a curb), poll etc etc
so IMHO it is overly simplistic to judge a bit simply on its mouthpiece....
A vulcanite pelham (where there is enough room for it in the horse's mouth) ridden as pelhams were designed to be ridden (that is, as a bit that allows for more sensitive aids and responses than an ordinary snaffle without having to use a double bridle rather than just for extra brakes) is actually a far nicer, gentler bit than a Dr Bristol could ever aspire to be.
The pelham, used properly, means that you can use as little or as much action as you need. It can actually be a really good bit for babies once they have the idea of basic schooling, for expanding on that. It shoul never be used just to stop a strong pony, or one that pulls - it's just not designed for that.
The Dr Bristol digs into the tongue however gently you use it. Make no mistake - it's a harsher bit than a pelham with a plain mouthpiece. And while it doesn't have the same curb action, it's a much more sever piece in the way it acts on the tongue, which is a very sensitive part of the horse.
YL - could you try him in the school with a pair of elasticated reins? I'd use two sets of reins to start with at least - but try riding him on the elastic pair (I had a pair with a rubber ring insert... there must be other types available though) unless he really is getting away. With youngsters (and it does sound like this is just a matter of schooling him out of it) that's sometimes enough to stop them pulling - they pull, the rein gives, and they find they have nothing to pull against. It can help enormously to lighten them and get them used to the idea of a light contact, rather than one where you're pulling against each other all the time.
The pelham might also be an answer - on two reins you can retain the snaffle for as long as he's listening, and use the curb when he starts to ignore you. Not all ponies respond well to it but it can be a huge help in schooling those that do.
Good luck!
The pelham, used properly, means that you can use as little or as much action as you need. It can actually be a really good bit for babies once they have the idea of basic schooling, for expanding on that. It shoul never be used just to stop a strong pony, or one that pulls - it's just not designed for that.
The Dr Bristol digs into the tongue however gently you use it. Make no mistake - it's a harsher bit than a pelham with a plain mouthpiece. And while it doesn't have the same curb action, it's a much more sever piece in the way it acts on the tongue, which is a very sensitive part of the horse.
YL - could you try him in the school with a pair of elasticated reins? I'd use two sets of reins to start with at least - but try riding him on the elastic pair (I had a pair with a rubber ring insert... there must be other types available though) unless he really is getting away. With youngsters (and it does sound like this is just a matter of schooling him out of it) that's sometimes enough to stop them pulling - they pull, the rein gives, and they find they have nothing to pull against. It can help enormously to lighten them and get them used to the idea of a light contact, rather than one where you're pulling against each other all the time.
The pelham might also be an answer - on two reins you can retain the snaffle for as long as he's listening, and use the curb when he starts to ignore you. Not all ponies respond well to it but it can be a huge help in schooling those that do.
Good luck!
eventerbabe, his owner knows he's not yet suitable for a child, thats why he's come to my mums yard and put him on schooling livery so that i can do some work with him until he is more suitable. He is only five years and has only been backed for about a year, I woudnt expect any pony of this age to be a suitable childs pony.
CVB, yes he had his teeth done with his vaccines when he first came to our yard about 3 weeks ago. He does react to half halts in the school, infact he can behave perfectly in the school but when he's out, really just when hes on his own which is something he hadnt done much of before, he just gets a bit full of himself, if i felt it was safe to keep him in a plain snaffle I would it's just I can imagine something going wrong every time I take him out, and he isnt mine afterall so i cant afford him putting himself in danger more than anything else. Might see if i can borrow a hanging cheek off someone as i done think i have one, would you suggest a single jointed or french link or will it not make much differance?
chev, i like the idea of elasticated reins, will try and find some and try him in the school, might put two pairs on and ride off the elasticated pair but have some others there just in case. I have a mullen pelham that will fit him so will try him in it today, I have been thinking about it for a while just to see how much differance it makes. Will let you know later how we get on.
YL xx
CVB, yes he had his teeth done with his vaccines when he first came to our yard about 3 weeks ago. He does react to half halts in the school, infact he can behave perfectly in the school but when he's out, really just when hes on his own which is something he hadnt done much of before, he just gets a bit full of himself, if i felt it was safe to keep him in a plain snaffle I would it's just I can imagine something going wrong every time I take him out, and he isnt mine afterall so i cant afford him putting himself in danger more than anything else. Might see if i can borrow a hanging cheek off someone as i done think i have one, would you suggest a single jointed or french link or will it not make much differance?
chev, i like the idea of elasticated reins, will try and find some and try him in the school, might put two pairs on and ride off the elasticated pair but have some others there just in case. I have a mullen pelham that will fit him so will try him in it today, I have been thinking about it for a while just to see how much differance it makes. Will let you know later how we get on.
YL xx
I got my first pony when i was nine and she was three. within a year she was an almost perfect capable childs pony. i was just trying to point out that he may never be suitable as a childs pony, some ponies are like that. i was advised against the elastic reins as it can encourage bad habits, but anything is worth a go once! let me know how the hanging cheek goes, my horse goes brilliantly in his
I'd stick with a mouthpiece you know he's ok with - which I think means either plain or FL - but as you want to borrow one first, you'll probably have to go with whats available !
As I said, I had a pony like this - and did the reschooling thing. Then sold him and got him back 6 years later - with pretty much all my good work undone
As he was somewhat older and more fixed in his ways, I still went for what reschooling I could do, but also had to consider safety. I ended up with a dutch gag but with 2 reins. I only used the next rein down when he was being crazy. So 90% of the time it was simply like a loose ring snaffle, but I had extra brakes when I needed them.
I didn't suggest this before as a dutch/bubble gag tends to send certain messages to people - but might also be worth a thought.
As I said, I had a pony like this - and did the reschooling thing. Then sold him and got him back 6 years later - with pretty much all my good work undone
As he was somewhat older and more fixed in his ways, I still went for what reschooling I could do, but also had to consider safety. I ended up with a dutch gag but with 2 reins. I only used the next rein down when he was being crazy. So 90% of the time it was simply like a loose ring snaffle, but I had extra brakes when I needed them.
I didn't suggest this before as a dutch/bubble gag tends to send certain messages to people - but might also be worth a thought.
Eventerbabe, sorry if that came across a bit harsh, I understand what you meant it's just he hasnt really had any schooling before and is not used to being ridden on the raods, so its all nwe experiances for him and weather he becomes a childs pony or not, i'd still prefer him to stay in a snaffle if possible simply becuase he's young and I know I prefer to ride horses, whatever age, to be ridden safely in a snaffle rather than having to rely on something stronger because thats what they were first schooled in and could never be taken out of becuase I know a lot of horses like that.
Update on bits...attempted to ride in a pelham with double reins this afternoon, he was fine when i just rode off the snaffle rein but when I needed to take up more contact on the curb rein he got really unhappy and stuck his head in the air and reacted really abruptly too it, i thought maybe the curb was too tight but it was really quite loose, i tried putting on an elastic curb but he still reacted really badle and this was just with me taking up a contact, not pulling at him ,so im thinking this bit is out of the question at the moment.
cvb, I would prefer to ride him in a FL but i guess I will have to go with whats available, I know one livery has one but not sure of mouthpiece, will try borrow it anyway. I can see where your coming from with the gag, I guess its a good idea to be able to ride with extra breaks just when they're needed it's just I cant do dressage with him in one and its part of the agreement that I will try and take him out this winter so I would prefer something suitable, which is another reason to stay in a snaffle. I suppose i could keep riding him in a snaffle in the school and just use a gag to ride out if I cant find anything else, will try hanging cheek first though.
YL x
Update on bits...attempted to ride in a pelham with double reins this afternoon, he was fine when i just rode off the snaffle rein but when I needed to take up more contact on the curb rein he got really unhappy and stuck his head in the air and reacted really abruptly too it, i thought maybe the curb was too tight but it was really quite loose, i tried putting on an elastic curb but he still reacted really badle and this was just with me taking up a contact, not pulling at him ,so im thinking this bit is out of the question at the moment.
cvb, I would prefer to ride him in a FL but i guess I will have to go with whats available, I know one livery has one but not sure of mouthpiece, will try borrow it anyway. I can see where your coming from with the gag, I guess its a good idea to be able to ride with extra breaks just when they're needed it's just I cant do dressage with him in one and its part of the agreement that I will try and take him out this winter so I would prefer something suitable, which is another reason to stay in a snaffle. I suppose i could keep riding him in a snaffle in the school and just use a gag to ride out if I cant find anything else, will try hanging cheek first though.
YL x
its a shame more people don't think like that. hope the hanging cheek works well. if not i know a lot of people who like the Myler bits. i don't know much about them and have never used them but people at our old yard raved about them
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