ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
hi everyone! i have currently got my gelding in a full cheek french link with a copper roller, but i still have no breaks, he's very strong and will pull away snatch his head back and run off even with me on him i cant hold him in this bit, he was previously in a bendy plastic french link type and i have more control not but still not enough so i've thought about maybe a french link but with the three ring gag? what would anyone suggest?
 

squidsin

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Feb 16, 2013
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hi everyone! i have currently got my gelding in a full cheek french link with a copper roller, but i still have no breaks, he's very strong and will pull away snatch his head back and run off even with me on him i cant hold him in this bit, he was previously in a bendy plastic french link type and i have more control not but still not enough so i've thought about maybe a french link but with the three ring gag? what would anyone suggest?
You could try a three-ring gag with the reins on the second loop to start - or a Universal. I have one of those for my mare when she gets strong XC or on fast hacks.
 

CharliesAngel

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Jan 15, 2010
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the bits you’ve mentioned having him in aren’t designed to give more brakes, if anything in a full cheek he will have more to set himself against.

The first thing to try would be whatever mouthpeice suits him but with looserings as these will give more movement and less to set against.

From there I would try a different noseband; does he open his mouth when he runs off? Id try a drop as a first pass and you could also try a flash or grackle.

If you still need brakes my first go to bit is always a kimblewick. Old fashioned and under used IMHO but used to be ‘the’ thing for kids on strong ponies. An uxeter version also has slots in the cheeks so you can varying the action and severity. You can also vary the severity by using a leather curb instead of the curb chain.

A dutch gag is also a popular option but works with rotation and poll pressure and again imho requires very good hands.

good luck!
 

ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
the bits you’ve mentioned having him in aren’t designed to give more brakes, if anything in a full cheek he will have more to set himself against.

The first thing to try would be whatever mouthpeice suits him but with looserings as these will give more movement and less to set against.

From there I would try a different noseband; does he open his mouth when he runs off? Id try a drop as a first pass and you could also try a flash or grackle.

If you still need brakes my first go to bit is always a kimblewick. Old fashioned and under used IMHO but used to be ‘the’ thing for kids on strong ponies. An uxeter version also has slots in the cheeks so you can varying the action and severity. You can also vary the severity by using a leather curb instead of the curb chain.

A dutch gag is also a popular option but works with rotation and poll pressure and again imho requires very good hands.

good luck!
He's currently in a flash as he opens his mouth tried a loose ring he got worse because had no turning
 

CharliesAngel

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Jan 15, 2010
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ok so Id try a kimblewick. I used to ride my 14.2hh connie x in one for hacking and XC and he was super in it.

sorry if Im stating the obvious but sounds like some schooling is needed too.
 
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ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
ok so Id try a kimblewick. I used to ride my 14.2hh connie x in one for hacking and XC and he was super in it.

sorry if Im stating the obvious but sounds like some schooling is needed too.

Thankyou!:) and I know it is sadly I'm trying to get schooling done but he gets so hot headed in an open field which is where all my other horses get schooled as I don't have access to an arena
 
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CharliesAngel

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thats the uxeter version

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SLOTTED-K...943460?hash=item51f56d79a4:g:t5MAAOSwol5Yz5md

you can just about see it in action here haha

lahill2_zps685714c4.jpg
 

squidsin

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Feb 16, 2013
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That was my plan what's the universal your talking about?:)
It's basically a milder version of a three-ring gag. As Charlie's Angel says, you do need to be careful not to be too strong in a gag, so a Universal is a sort of in-between measure - stronger than a snaffle with the same action as a three ring but less severe.

How is he tanking? If he's setting against the bit and running off, then something like a Waterford (which are designed so that horses can't get hold of them) might be a good choice.
 

carthorse

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Jan 6, 2006
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If you have no/very poor brakes & no steering without a full cheek then I think you need to work on his schooling. Getting strong in some situations is one thing, but this sounds like you have very little control in any circumstances & that makes me think a bit change isn't the solution.
 

ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
It's basically a milder version of a three-ring gag. As Charlie's Angel says, you do need to be careful not to be too strong in a gag, so a Universal is a sort of in-between measure - stronger than a snaffle with the same action as a three ring but less severe.

How is he tanking? If he's setting against the bit and running off, then something like a Waterford (which are designed so that horses can't get hold of them) might be a good choice.
he just throws his head around dragging me forward and gallops off
 

ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
If you have no/very poor brakes & no steering without a full cheek then I think you need to work on his schooling. Getting strong in some situations is one thing, but this sounds like you have very little control in any circumstances & that makes me think a bit change isn't the solution.
hes fine on hacks like walking down roads and things and in an arena he is fine hes been strong but always controllable most of the time just anywhere else i have no control, im trying to school him more but hes kept on a sheep farm i work at because i cant afford arena hire
 

carthorse

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You can school in the corner of a field or out hacking, not having an arena is no excuse. And I suspect the only reason he's fine on hacks which are just walking down the road is that there's very little incentive to do anything else, that's not control. "In an arena he is fine hes been strong but always controllable most of the time just anywhere else i have no control" fills me with no confidence whatsoever, it sounds like you're just sitting there and hoping for the best - that's dangerous for you, him & anyone caught in the crossfire. However you do it work on his schooling, a stronger bit is just going to produce a harder mouth & the need for an even stronger one.

How long have you had him? If he came to you in a mild bit & you haven't had him long I wonder if the previous owner would be prepared to give you some tips if you got in touch? It seems odd that he's changed that much.
 

newforest

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Mar 15, 2008
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I go for the obvious first. Teeth check, physio check, saddle fit check. In your case change of workload, feed and turnout possibly.
I teach the one rein stop on a potential runner.
Have you got an instructor?

I rung the bit bank. I had long chat with them about what was fine and what wasn't and where it wasn't. The type of horse I had and her way of going etc etc. What schooling I was going to be working on and I contacted my instructor to run the bit past them.
 

squidsin

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Feb 16, 2013
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OK, it does sound like he's getting away with behaving badly at the moment. Your first port of call is LESSONS. You need to do this before you stick a stronger bit in, and get an expert opinion on what the problem is exactly. Stronger bits can make the horse more badly behaved if not used correctly. Get an instructor to come in and ride him for you - in the field is fine, you don't need a school - and assess why he's tanking and how best to resolve the problem.

All new horses test their owners, and if he is getting away with it, this will escalate and he will become dangerous and you won't enjoy riding. But it's fine - just nip it in the bud now. You do need help though, and riding lessons now are a wise investment to prevent future problems.
 
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ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
We've had lessons and @carthorse i am trying to school but can not get him to school in the corner of the field anywhere I'm trying to get him to arenas to school but where we are is difficult when I have no transport to get anywhere, and when he schools in an arena alone he's brilliant and I have full control no pulling nothing, and we can have group lessons an he's fine and when he's got new horses (in a show environment for example) around he gets naughty i wouldn't take him if I thought he'd be a danger I'm certainly not sitting and hoping for the best I'm really trying to find what works for him and with him, I've had him over a month but previous owners did very little with him he's never really had a long time owner cause he's always had these problems but no one has ever worked with him through them and he's been allowed to get away with anything and everything so I've got him along way better then what he was he's 10 and I'm his 9th home literally a home a year and he came to me from a dealer who brought him back after previously selling him once last year and sold him to me this year.

@newforest hes had his teeth and back done and vet has checked him also, he's having a saddler out next week, he's come into more work since I've had him and he gets happy hoof a small bit of mix(made sure it's for excitable horses so won't fizz him up) calm and condition as he dropped weight with more work he's now slowly coming off feed with the spring grass coming through I have contact with my instructor constantly but when I have proper lessons it's always with different people can never book what one and can't afford to pay privately for my instructor to travel and arena hire regularly as that would work out at £70 each lesson but we're having lessons as much as possible and he's not actually getting away with much and I'm really trying to stop any bad behaviour before it becomes a habit

@squidsin he hasn't actually tanked off since he's had the flash on but he just snactches his head which he is getting better with more work but my instructor can't come out to ride him as were too far out and I don't have the money to pay at the moment- I would say as much he's getting away with it because I am stopping him and he's not actually going now but he keeps trying it and people who have watched him being ridden have suggested trying the 3ring just so there's more leverage in the bit so it would take less contact for the same pressure
 

carthorse

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Jan 6, 2006
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Oh just go ahead & sling in the strongest bit you can find, clamp his mouth shut with a grackle or similar & add a standing martingale for good measure - it's obviously all the horse being difficult! Honestly your posts scream that he needs educating (& probably so do you) but that isn't what you want to hear so why are we wasting our breath? I just hope for everyone's sake you don't end up having an accident due to your lack of control. Read your posts back though, they aren't terribly consistent but they all say you lack control in anything other than a short walk hack, doesn't that tell you something?
 
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newforest

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Mar 15, 2008
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If he won't school in the field ridden I might try and lunge with two reins in walk initially and see what he does.
Despite his age if nobody has he could just view a field as some where to blast.
Shut the gate :) When I started longreining mine around or field she did do one and it was long walk to go fetch her. But she only ever did it the once.

I would shop around for a freelance to come to you and use your facilities, explain the issues about the field. Then you have no school hire or transport costs.

Did the dentist discovery he was older than you thought? Originally you said he was six, now he is ten.
 
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ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
If he won't school in the field ridden I might try and lunge with two reins in walk initially and see what he does.
Despite his age if nobody has he could just view a field as some where to blast.
Shut the gate :) When I started longreining mine around or field she did do one and it was long walk to go fetch her. But she only ever did it the once.

I would shop around for a freelance to come to you and use your facilities, explain the issues about the field. Then you have no school hire or transport costs.

Did the dentist discovery he was older than you thought? Originally you said he was six, now he is ten.
Thankyou for your advice! I've lunged him a few times there and he took off once but hasn't done will try lunging him more Thankyou! And I'll try and find someone, an I have a section A that's 6 and him a sec C/D that's 10 sorry if my other post was missunderstood!
 

ChloeAnWomble

Chloe and Merlin
Feb 3, 2016
65
11
8
Aberystwyth
Oh just go ahead & sling in the strongest bit you can find, clamp his mouth shut with a grackle or similar & add a standing martingale for good measure - it's obviously all the horse being difficult! Honestly your posts scream that he needs educating (& probably so do you) but that isn't what you want to hear so why are we wasting our breath? I just hope for everyone's sake you don't end up having an accident due to your lack of control. Read your posts back though, they aren't terribly consistent but they all say you lack control in anything other than a short walk hack, doesn't that tell you something?
That is the last thing I want to do! This is not what this post is asking in asking for help when I know I need it! I'm asking for help not to be slated and told I haven't got a clue what I'm doing! When I do I've got three very happy healthy horse two of which I've worked through their issues with! I'm aware he needs educating! And I'm getting him to lessons as much as possible but it's not exactly easy for me! I understand me and him need lessons but being rude about it is not needed I've took on advice and I'm going to try and get more lessons but I've always made sure he's never going to put anyone else in danger, he's been to one show which was the first time he behaved badly around new horses and got excitable! So I think if you'd actually stop being damn right rude! I am taking on the advice! I'm in control but I struggle to hold him in open fields and if I loose my grip is when/if he tanks off! This being the reason he hasn't gone anywhere because I won't! He I have 130 acre of fields on site here and I'm trying my god damn hardest! So I you have nothin kind to say or advice to live please don't say anything !
 
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