urgent, please help, advise needed ref navicular syndrome

R

redfoxylady

Member
Jan 12, 2008
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Hants bordering Surrey
My horse has been in the hospital since yesterday for investigation into intermittant lameness that she has had for about 4 weeks. I have just had the phonecall to say that she has navicular syndrome and it is the worst case that this vet has seen since she qualified in 1999, she asked for the xrays to be repeated because she could not believe how bad it was. One of her navicular bones has got an absess in it as it is so bad and both fore feet are affected.
The plan was that she comes back today and we take her back on Weds to have some treatment via a drip (which may cause colic) so she has to stay in for the day, a steroid injection into the pedal bone and she would also have some remedial shoes put on. The vet thinks that it will be very unlikely to get her sound to do the things we did which was SJ/XC schooling/hacking and at best she may be able to hack in walk!. She is only 8yrs old and a fiery chestnut mare warmblood so there is questions as to whether she would cope with not doing anything.
The vet thinks that she has been coping with the pain as it is so advanced and she was not lame until 4 wks ago. I cannot stop crying, I was supposed to be going into work this afternoon and collecting her after but cancelled work and am going to try and see the vet this afternoon to discuss and see the dreaded xrays. any personal experiances would be gratefully received.
She is kept at a DIY livery and has been getting increasingly agitated when she has not been doing anything and other horses go hacking by.
The other option would be cutting the nerve but the vet does not seem keen on that.
She has turnout from 8am till 5.30pm.
 
i'm so sorry to hear this, what an awful situation :eek:

i don't have any personal experience of my horses with navicular but i do know a mare who was a similar age when diagnosed who's now well into her 20's, still hacking out and thoroughly enjoying life - she has been remedially shod with raised heels. There's also lots out there about the benefits of going barefoot to improve navicular cases.

Fingers crossed there's something that can be done to help your mare xx
 
So sorry to hear about your horse. I have no experience of navicular, however, OH's horse (about 2 years ago) became lame through djd and has since had to be more or less retired (he's a tb so not easy when he's not doing a lot!!!). Its been up and down, and I won't pretend he couldn't do with more work (he really does have his moments if you don't ride him often enough) but we are coping. He's currently on tiny paddock rest due to pulling his suspensory ligament (again) so I don't think OH is particularly looking forwards to getting back on board in the distant future (could be fun!!!). Hopefully there will be others on here that can share their experience - and I really hope the treatment is a success for you. Its tough when you have to consider practically retiring them isn't it? And you say her personality is not one that is particularly laid back. Sending healing vibes your way - keep us posted when you get chance.
 
My old horse who was an ex showjumper was diagnosed with navicular at the age of about 21 (although he had the mind and ability of a 10 year old), and like you, we were told that it was a very serious case of it - vet said that his navicular bone was so degenerated that it was actually fraying away to practically nothing. He had it in both front feet. He had a course of cortisone injections with hylauric acid into the joint and did come sound. We weren't able to jump him anymore but we were just so relieved to get him back and ride him again. He had another course of injections about four years later when he started to get 'pottery' and then stayed sound up until the day he died at 31. I realise he was older than your mare but my friend's horse was diagnosed with navicular at the age of 4 and was still sound when he passed away at the age of 25. With navicular, it's really a case of 'managing' your horse. It is unlikely that you'll be able to SJ or XC again unless you stick to very low jumps on soft ground! It doesn't neccessarily mean however that you have to spend the rest of your horse's life just plodding around in walk (we too were told he would only ever hack in walk) - you can hopefully still get many good riding years out of her as long as you are careful about the ground you ride on, always keep her well balanced when you ride and make sure you've got a good farrier to shoe with plenty of support at the heel and keep the toes short. We did try surgical shoes but found they made our horse uncomfortable. Please don't give up on your horse, they are many things that can be done now - you may just have to adjust to a new way of life with her. We started to do dressage with our boy instead and he suprised us by doing some really nice tests. Good luck ;)
 
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no idea if this is even relevant let alone helpful but here goes...

If you were talking bout a human I would say have you been to an osteopath? They know more about bones than anybody else (including doctors) and it is amazing the number of problems that can be fixed by an osteopath that you wouldn't think had anything to do with bones.

I used to know an osteopath who worked with horses too so i can only assume that he is not the only one.

hope that helps?
 
My horse Lady was diagnosed with navicular a couple of months ago.

She had the steriods into the pedal bone, and the drip medication (tildren). Tildren is basically calcium which helps the navicular bone.

I was told that my horse would never work again and the best thing I could do was put her down.

I turned her away in a field and left her for a few months and she has now come sound. In fact, ive just got back from a hack with her.

Ive been told that if I take things extremely slowly with building up her muscles again, i.e walking for 4-6wk, I should be able to continue with the hacking, xc, jumping etc.

Unfortunately vets will always give you the worse scenarios so they cant get in trouble later. I was exactly the same as you. Crying my eyes out, couldnt eat or sleep.

Give it time and I think your mare will come sound.

PM if you like

:D
 
navicular

I knew that newrider will help to make me feel more positive thanks everyone and faralaa, I have pm'd. The vet made it sound so grim that I even thought about having her put to sleep today! we will be going to collect her soon and cannot wait to get her back home. please keep the advise coming (good and bad),
 
redfoxylady said:
The vet made it sound so grim that I even thought about having her put to sleep today!
Click to expand...

Nope, dont do that. Navicular cannot be cured, but it can be managed with corrective shoeing, and make sure not to compete on ground that is too hard.

:)
 
Dont despair!!
My old TB mare had navicular syndrome,and after having rest for a while,we brought her back into work,even hunting,albiet i took her steady.One thing i did find helped her was being turned out 24/7 with shelter.(not that she ever used the shelter,even when raining cats and dogs!)
In the end it was old that got her,not the navicular,and she was only 6 when diagnosed with it.
 
Don't panic - easier said than done, I know.

I bought a horse with a generic navicular/caudal heel pain diagnosis for a nominal amount back in January, with the full belief that given enough time, rehab, and really dedicated foot and general health care, he could come right, despite years of box rest and poor diagnosis/treatment/farriery.

He's doing great. We're not there yet, but we're a long way from finished, and I have full confidence he will come completely right.

It's important to understand that 'navicular' can be a very wide reaching and misleading term. The key thing is now to understand everything you possibly can about foot balance and how to address the issues which caused the 'navicular' in the first place.

I've done a huge amount of research in this area - and it's confusing as hell - so much contradictory information is written in veterinary articles and papers, let alone in everything else. It's not an easy problem to understand - there's no one definite cause or treatment.

I personally have gone down the route of taking the shoes off, as I firmly believe this offers the only chance of a real full recovery - fortunately my vet is open minded enough to work with me and my hoof trimmer on this, and has been impressed with the results. We debated the idea of palliative care, 'remedial' shoeing etc, but I didn't want to go down this route, as I felt this wasn't addressing what had caused the issues in the first place, and would simply be for me to get 'a couple of years use' out of him - not what I wanted at all. I know this is not the conventional route, and I'm not criticising that route at all, just passing on something which has been incredibly eye opening and important (and successful so far:))

Navicular horses will have either tall, upright feet with high heels, or flat feet with under run heels. Addressing this is the key to helping the horse.

You need to also bear in mind that the foot balance will have affected the tendons - my boy had horrifically contracted deep flexor tendons, and the tightness ran all the way up the back of his front legs, into the shoulder, and affected his back. Osteopathy/Chiropractic has addressesd a lot of this, as well as getting the feet to a balanced shape, allowing the heel to decontract, and the internal foot structures to develop in the way they were meant to.

He also had sheared heels on both fronts, which was caused by lateral inbalance in his feet. He had also been allowed to wear shoes for up to 14 weeks at a time:eek::( - caused catastrophic issues to his feet and legs - he was basically wearing high heels.

You need to get your horse comfortable enough to be able to start landing heel first at the walk again. Navicular horses will land toe first, in an effort to get the pressure off their painful heels - this will keep causing more and more wear to the tendons and ligaments. They will also 'toe point' - rest the worst foot toe down out in front of their bodies, and lean forward to un-weight the heels. This causes strain on the knees, and shoulders, and has a knock on effect through the rest of the body. Addressing this is vital, whichever route you go down.

As I said - just my opinion - I'm not a barefoot fanatic by any means, but the method did seem to offer most hope to me, my horse is happier, more comfortable, sounder, and moving better now than he's been in 3 years (and that included 6 months of remedial shoeing with his previous owner, which made no improvement at all - the foot balance wasn't addressed before the shoeing, so I can't see how it could have made a difference).

This was a useful article for me:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/end_of_white_line_disease.htm#Navicular

Please PM if you like:) And don't panic - the vet's job is to give you worst case scenario - your job is to learn everything you can, take it all on board, choose the route you want to go down, and stay positive.
 
Feel for you. Please don't decide anything too quickly or listen to only one point of view. I still have nightmares about having my love of my life pts 20 years ago through my ignorance and listening to one vet's pov. This is a fab forum and I hope you draw stength and a night's sleep from it..:)
 
Oh JanC you made me cry again reading about the loss of your horsey.
Thanks again to you all for spending the time to write, it is all so very helpful and promising. We collected her last night and she was depressed when we collected her, her ears were back and she tried to nip me when I stroked her big pink nose which she has never ever done, she perked up when the travel boots came out and ran into the box,then happily munched all the way home.
She went into her stable and rolled twice, she was very happy to be home.
She has never had a down day and is always full of it normally.
She really does not act as if anything is wrong, apart from intermittant lameness that was only initially seen on the lunge, it make it so much more difficult to believe. still lots to think about and will be having a good chat to the vet on Wednesday when she is going in for treatment drip/injections.

HAS ANYONE HAD EXPERIANCE OF NEURECTOMY FOR THIS CONDITION?
the vet did not seem keen and know that it can have a post op complication which may cause a neuromy? where the nerve is cut which itself causes pain.
I am thinking of going down the route of getting her sound and finding a home where she can do low level work, hacking and as a companion but need to ensure that she will never be in any pain so worry that she could be passed on or that treatment when required is not given. If she has the neurectomy then she would not feel pain in the back 2 thirds of her foot but can still feel the front. There is conflict of advise as to whether should be performed and what the horse is capable of after.
I have been advised that due to the lack of feeling you have to be really strict to check the feet as she would not go lame with an absess etc.
But surely this would outweigh her being in pain with it ever again?
So what shoes have people been advised to use as it seems that remedial ones are not always necessary and it has been said that they can cause more discomfort. Also if she did not have the neurectomy, it may not be necessary to be on bute forever? but just when she appears to need it? any ideas on how long the steroid injection works? Sorry, I said I had loads to ask the vet:rolleyes:

There are many reasons why I will probably need to rehome her and it is not because she can longer jump etc, but my daughter is travelling abroad next year so we were going to be advertising her for sale early next year. I can not afford to keep her by myself as we have always gone 1/2 on everything.
obviously I will take full responsibilty to ensure that she has a pain free happy future and wish that I had my own home with a paddock where I can look after her. Just too many things to think about but for now she is happy!
I will try and post some pics of my beautiful girl for you all to see and I have her xrays also. If anyone can find any images of a normal foot that would be great, of to search the internet now. THANKS SO MUCH TO YOU ALL YOU HAVE HELPED MAKE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME EASIER.:)
 
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twelesdownnatural.jpg
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here is my girl doing what she enjoyed best! very sad that she will not be able to do again
 
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Hi, I will try and keep this short, and it may be well to PM me if we want to keep this on track and not consfuse any other owners of hossys with Nav..I say that because, my hoss (also a warmblood, Westphalian) has the same condition of nav that you describe. His is severe advanced navicular disease (holes in the bone) (not syndrome, which is different) and was diagnosed soon after i bought him 3 yrs ago from a very dodgy dealer (who is now in jail). But, from reading your post, i do not think that you hoss has this advanced case as it takes some time for the progression from syndrome to disease and this would have been noticable through lameness in trot for some time, also, if it was as far advanced as my boy, you would not be offered any treatment, apart from adding MSM type suppliment and good barefoot trim or remedial shoeing. My vet is very well respected in Scotland and has many great referralls under his belt and noway would he recommend nerve blocks. Put it this way, no one knows the future of a nav hoss, but, any hoss can go down with colic, have a bad injury so, we just have to take each day as it comes. Rite?

That said, i would like to say the following if ok:p

a) Severe advanced Nav, does not happen overnight, ok, it might be the worst case that this vet has seen, but, could it not be that they have not seen many cases?

b) If the above applies, seek a second opinon.;)

c) If things are really that bad, (as in my case) then take heart, I got the x rays re taken 3 yrs apart and the bone has stayed the same. My boy is a show off, does star jumps etc, had a fantastic hack yesterday (wanted to jog the whole way) bucked his heart out in canter and we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. I would, however, never jump him, that is where the stress came in the first place to cause his problems.

Sorry to be long winded, and hope that i have helped a bit, pm me if you want to.

In the meantime, here is a link to a post i put up on an American website in pure desperation, and it turns out, the answer was on my door step...:)

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

Linda x

ps lovely hoss, and i know how frustrating this all is, there is not enough research into this condition :confused:
 
With regards to cutting the nerve I would personally advise against it - it's quite an old fashioned remedy and I don't know any vet that is happy to do this nowadays. We looked into doing this for our old boy but after extensive research we found that the cons outweighed the pros. It's like you say - you have to be really stringent in checking the foot as injurys can go unnoticed. I heard stories of people that had lost horses through blood poisoning as an abcess had turned septic when it hadn't been detected because of the nerve being cut. So. we decided against doing it, then three months later my boy trod on a nail and needed to be poulticed for 5 days. If we had had the nerve cut this may also have gone unnoticed then heaven knows what would have happened.

As for the injection, my vet says that it lasts 1 - 2 years, although for us it lasted 4 years. There's no real set time scale - you just do it again when you notice the horse becoming uncomfortable.

Hope this helps :)
 
I 2nd the suggestion of barefoot and boots. The variety is out there now to cover all eventualities. The barefoot site listed above is VERY good. Its alot less expensive than shoeing and the pads can be tailored exactly to what your horse needs.

also, I would put her of Equiflex. There were brilliant studies/results done in the States 10 years ago about the positive effect on navicular horses by feeding the chondronitin/msn/(and one other, I cant remember its name!). Dont give up! She's young enough.
I used to ride a mare (12 years old) who hunted and she was diagnosed with crippling navicular too. After 3 months of equiflex she was back in work and she went on to hunt for 6 more seasons before retiring -only cos her owner was in his late 70's and HE gave it up!

www.healthspan.co.uk Scroll down and click on Vetsvits.
 
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I just posted this on a 'WHY SHOES?' thread but it would be relevant here, I too cried and lost hope, there were highs and lows and really Lows, but we are on the up, the hoof can heal itself with help, something that shoes could never do for my horse, farriers do quick fixes and take you money while they can, barefoot hoof trimmers on the other hand set a foot up to heal itself....for the long term...


It is worth remembering that horses are not born with shoes, also that they were ridden without shoes for thousands of years before we decided to put shoes on them.

Have a look at the info on www.naturalhoofcare.co.uk and www.easycareinc.com

for my personal experience, my 17hh trakehner x was nearly done for under the hands of the 'experts' farriers, as he is an extravagant mover he keep treading his shoes off, farriers solution = shoe him tight behind. result =not enough support and heel became under run causing navicular syndrome, next farriers solution = put him natural balance with wedged pads and impression material, result (18 months later at £140 EVERY 4 WEEKS!!!) horse lamer than when we started and xrays show not one millimetre of change in foot shape or angle also tiny wisps on navicluar bone now small nodules, farrier solution = aluminium wedged eggbars, told me that they don't make his size 5 so put on 4's result = 16 hours later led horse out of stable crippled, farrier solution = put normal shoes on, a week later still noticably lame with roaring hot feet, MY SOLUTION = SACK FARRIER searched on internet about boots, found easycare website and never looked back, found Alicia Mitchell on natural hoofcare and out she came, she knew she was my last hope, and she is brilliant! she provided a set trim to Clint and my old boy Digby and explained everything about what was going to happen with his feet, how they would feel like they have pins and needles in the feet for 3-6 weeks and that he would look touchy on them, but that this is because shoes have numbed the feet and it would take this time for the feet to come back to life, as the digital cushion and all surrounding nerves would now be able to do their job, in the first 6 weeks he chipped alot of old hoof off they looked unsightly but she explained that this would happen as he had such poor quality hoof, after 8 weeks from the start I trotted him up on the drive and he was SOUND!!!! I got my equine physio out and she did 3 sesions on him, as she put it he was muscle bound and tight in his whole body, he has had cartrophen injections by the vet to stop the nodules in their tracks, and last night I got on him for the first time in 6 months he was a different horse, huge stride willingly going forward and so flexible, we did 10 mins work in walk, it was the best 10 mins of my life, he had a big smile too! I think he rather missed our time together and when I went to lead him out of the school he rooted! more please mummy! I don't often cry but it hit me on the short journey home, I cried for how lovely it was to be on him again, and for my ignorance and what I have put him through with shoes, no horse of mine will ever go near a farrier or have shoes on again.
 
What a great story snopuma - can't wait till I get back on my boy:)

Can you tell me more about the Cartrophen please? Not something I've come across.
 
urgent please help advise needed re navicular syndrome

I'm so sorry, but don't despair - a lot of useful advice on here, which you obviously have read about this syndrome, and the fact that it isn't necessarily the end of the line for your horse.

Mine has navicular, and hind problems also, but I've recently started her on Cartrophen injections on the advice of my vet, and there have been a lot of trials apparently on the very successful outcome of using this drug.

I'd used it some years ago, but it was not then licensed for use in the UK as you may have read in my previous post, and although it helped a lot, I was unsure about carrying on with it over a lengthy period.

I don't feel that now, as after a long discussion with my vet, and confirmation from my physio, both felt that my horse would benefit, and, it isn't an "invasive" drug, which was what I was worried about initially. It is quite expensive, but it can now also be given in powder form, after the initial injections, as a supplement.

My vet also said that it is very similar to Cortaflex, but in her opinion, much better and faster-acting, so, talk to your vet, and be comforted by all the very positive and helpful comments of the posters prior to mine.

Good Luck, and take heart :)

Roseanne xxx
 
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