Sorry, it's another bucking thread!
- Thread starter x-Marmite-x
- Start date
I would make him do a little work rather than allowing him to plod as some stiffness issues can be made worse by lack of excercise.
We had an old boy called Red who was incredibly stiff when you first got on him but once warmed up the excercise actually did him the world of good (so much so that one lesson when he was particularly spritely he tanked off up the school with me
) When he was retired at 25 he went downhill really rapidly but we just couldn't keep him in regular work as it was too much for him and a year later we had to have him PTS because he was just so stiff and miserable that he didn't even want to be out in his field
We had an old boy called Red who was incredibly stiff when you first got on him but once warmed up the excercise actually did him the world of good (so much so that one lesson when he was particularly spritely he tanked off up the school with me
) When he was retired at 25 he went downhill really rapidly but we just couldn't keep him in regular work as it was too much for him and a year later we had to have him PTS because he was just so stiff and miserable that he didn't even want to be out in his fieldOne of the cobs i ride (who i actually thought about buying for a while!) is generally very ploddy - he's stiff and has aged quite rapidly. Anyways, my RI was telling me to tap him up but whenever i did, he bucked. Not a big buck or one intended to unseat, just more of a stroppy one - however forceful or gentle the tap was. But without tapping him up he will NOT move forwards off the leg. He was actually very forward going (for him!) today and i didn't need to use my stick much, but i was still a bit uncomfortable tapping him when he obviously wasn't happy about it. So what should i do? If i don't tap him up i end up nagging with my leg and we inconvenience the whole ride, if i do tap him up he goes forwards but is evidently not happy about it - he does have issues with stiffness and does really struggle with his corners, too
ETA: Remember he isn't mine so i have no control over back, saddle, teeth checks etc or over his exercise program - all i can do is get on him and try and make the most of the hour we have
I don't the problem is the bucking; clearly your horse resents the use of the stick (could he have been nagged or abused with one in the past?) and you are right to question your use of it on him.
I imagine that spurs would have a similar effect so wouldn't be a suitable alternative, though you could try them.
To be honest, the whip doesn't seem to be working anyway: you nag with your legs and your whip by the sound sof it. I am not accusing you: far from it. It's just that you have got into a vicious cycle - your horse is not going forward enough, so you use your leg and he doesn't respond, so you use your stick and he still doesn't respond, so with no other means you use it again ... and, as with all people who nag, your horse just stops listening because the rider does not ask him to go forwards meaningfully. Little and often, when you really need to, would be more effective than frequent taps.
That said, have you looked at the horse's diet? Why is he not going forward enough - have you had his back and saddle checked? Is your riding preventing your horse from moving forwards (i.e. tense seat, knees, holding back with the hands etc). Is his diet giving him enough energy? Is he bored by his work? You need to get him motivated to want to work forwards; forcing him to will only increase his resentment and make him even more behind the leg. Does he behave the same with other, perhaps more experienced (I don't know your own experience) riders?I have ridden horses like this and it gets VERY frustrating, so I totally understand where you are coming from. These horse behaved like so because they were RS horses: they were bored, were used to being ridden insensitively and poorly, tired, resenting ... until they go out hacking, or jumping. Then they light up: it's liek riding a different horse. Try doing somethign different with your horse. And be quick to praise_ stay very positive and always let him know when you are pleased him, so praise him when he has tried hard/done well.
old_woman
a VERY senior citizen
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that regardless of whether the horse is on loan to the RS or what, you need to go with your conscience - which is telling you to go easy on him.
Perhaps you could discuss the matter with your RI and ask if he is on any treatment for his stiffness. It has to be said that steady, gentle exercise is generally beneficial in case of arthritis, but (at least in humans) this stops before pain (as opposed to discomfort) occurs, and after appropriate medication.
It may be that the horse is already on appropriate medication such as painkillers or joint supplements, and that he needs to be kept in steady work and pushed on through minor discomfort to keep his joints mobile - but you do need to check this out for your own peace of mind.
Perhaps you could discuss the matter with your RI and ask if he is on any treatment for his stiffness. It has to be said that steady, gentle exercise is generally beneficial in case of arthritis, but (at least in humans) this stops before pain (as opposed to discomfort) occurs, and after appropriate medication.
It may be that the horse is already on appropriate medication such as painkillers or joint supplements, and that he needs to be kept in steady work and pushed on through minor discomfort to keep his joints mobile - but you do need to check this out for your own peace of mind.
he could be bucking through discomfort but if your RI knows he has stiffness issues then I would assume that she is making sure he is properly warmed up and capable of doing what is asked of him so I would assume he is possibly taking the mick a bit and knows you are a soft touch. I wouldn't think that a riding school would push a horse into working if it is in pain or at least I wouldn't like to think they would.
"he's stiff and has aged quite rapidly, he does have issues with stiffness and does really struggle with his corners"
"After learning more about his soundness issues, especially in this cold weather, it doesn't seem entirely fair on him"
Right. With all the stuff you said, it doesn't sound like he's being nappy, sounds like a health thing related to his age. Like you, if I had to ride him I'd feel guilty about making him move forward when I thought there might be a fair chance he's uncomfortable.
"But he wouldn't be in the RS if he wasn't capable of doing the work ........"
Hhmmmm...I used teach p-t in a riding school for a little while... there used be a minature pony there who bucked constantly from one end of the arena to the other.......wasn't an issue for the centre (don't know what checks they did on pony but if any were done nothing worked) as one person would lead pony, and one person would hold 'young rider' in the saddle and pony could buck as much as he liked. Most RCs care very well for horses, but now and again if you're stuck for a horse you might be told to pull in something thats already done a lot of work or who's lightly lame.......money's money. not saying your is of course, but its a tough job to make a living from. I just wouldn't assume that a teacher / instructor is always right, unless I quizzed them and was satisfied that everything made sense. So in this case, that the pony had passed the vet, had no back or teeth or feet issues, and whatever way they told me to ride/train the pony was actually IMPROVING the problem. From what you say your' tapping is not improving the pony's way of going.
Then again it could be something as simple as a sore saddle or loose tooth or something... though I know its probably a bit politically sensitive to ask the RS about that... If you rub his back when he doesn't have a saddle on, can you find any sore areas? (watch his face and ears to see his reaction)
I guess basically if it was me, I'd ride a different horse cos I'd feel too guilty riding this little guy, but then after the lesson I'd go down and see him and give him a hug & some hay
Follow your gut feeling.
"After learning more about his soundness issues, especially in this cold weather, it doesn't seem entirely fair on him"
Right. With all the stuff you said, it doesn't sound like he's being nappy, sounds like a health thing related to his age. Like you, if I had to ride him I'd feel guilty about making him move forward when I thought there might be a fair chance he's uncomfortable.
"But he wouldn't be in the RS if he wasn't capable of doing the work ........"
Hhmmmm...I used teach p-t in a riding school for a little while... there used be a minature pony there who bucked constantly from one end of the arena to the other.......wasn't an issue for the centre (don't know what checks they did on pony but if any were done nothing worked) as one person would lead pony, and one person would hold 'young rider' in the saddle and pony could buck as much as he liked. Most RCs care very well for horses, but now and again if you're stuck for a horse you might be told to pull in something thats already done a lot of work or who's lightly lame.......money's money. not saying your is of course, but its a tough job to make a living from. I just wouldn't assume that a teacher / instructor is always right, unless I quizzed them and was satisfied that everything made sense. So in this case, that the pony had passed the vet, had no back or teeth or feet issues, and whatever way they told me to ride/train the pony was actually IMPROVING the problem. From what you say your' tapping is not improving the pony's way of going.
Then again it could be something as simple as a sore saddle or loose tooth or something... though I know its probably a bit politically sensitive to ask the RS about that... If you rub his back when he doesn't have a saddle on, can you find any sore areas? (watch his face and ears to see his reaction)
I guess basically if it was me, I'd ride a different horse cos I'd feel too guilty riding this little guy, but then after the lesson I'd go down and see him and give him a hug & some hay
Follow your gut feeling.
Last edited:
Some RS horses just do this, some horses just don't like being tapped- this doesn't mean they can ignore the leg! One tap is much better than kicking for an hour....If you're concerned about his fitness, it's much better to just speak to your RI than either hurt the horse or waste your lesson (as I know- they are bloody precious and bloody expensive!!)
Ok.. then he's just physically going downhill, esp if he was hammered when younger. I bought Pepsi when both he & I were twelve. He was a great little pony. Loved being out & about, great manners, went where you asked no issues, etc. 18 years on (when he was thirty) he was EXACTLY the same in everything he did. Yes definitely stiffer, older, and more aged, balance not the best anymore, but he was still exactly the same horse in how he behaved, what he thought and did.
Basically ride a different horse. It's not fair to ride this guy.
The RC will prob still use him, but personally if he was mine I wouldn't.
Basically ride a different horse. It's not fair to ride this guy.
The RC will prob still use him, but personally if he was mine I wouldn't.
Last edited:
"RI's response is just 'give it another smack' when he bucks "
Then I suggest you get a better riding instructor. Seriously. You won't learn much horsemanship if the pony is actually too old for this stuff, and that is their response.
Actually even IF it wasn't a health issue, and there was some kind of training issue, you still sure as hell wouldn't smack the pony or have a young rider onboard who's only learning themselves.
Tell them you didn't come here to learn how to hit a horse, then walk out, pick up all your stuff and don't go back too soon. Go somewhere else. I can remember one or two times in my youth when a riding instructor got me to do something I knew in my gut wasn't right, but cos they were my riding instructor I thought they knew more than I did , and that they were right and who was I to question them. So I did what they said, knew it was wrong and felt like crap.
If I could go back and say.. 'thanks but no, I'll find a different way to do that which I'm more comfortable with' I would in a heartbeat.
Follow your gut always.
There are a lot of good teachers out there. - btw, if you're keen on learning about horsemanship, I just read a cool little book...... its called old men and horses by ross jacobs. Now THAT is horsemanship its told in story format so its very readable
Then I suggest you get a better riding instructor. Seriously. You won't learn much horsemanship if the pony is actually too old for this stuff, and that is their response.
Actually even IF it wasn't a health issue, and there was some kind of training issue, you still sure as hell wouldn't smack the pony or have a young rider onboard who's only learning themselves.
Tell them you didn't come here to learn how to hit a horse, then walk out, pick up all your stuff and don't go back too soon. Go somewhere else. I can remember one or two times in my youth when a riding instructor got me to do something I knew in my gut wasn't right, but cos they were my riding instructor I thought they knew more than I did , and that they were right and who was I to question them. So I did what they said, knew it was wrong and felt like crap.
If I could go back and say.. 'thanks but no, I'll find a different way to do that which I'm more comfortable with' I would in a heartbeat.
Follow your gut always.
There are a lot of good teachers out there. - btw, if you're keen on learning about horsemanship, I just read a cool little book...... its called old men and horses by ross jacobs. Now THAT is horsemanship
its told in story format so its very readable
Last edited:
Retirement isn't always the best option though it may feel mean to make hi work but in the long run he could be better of retirement is basically what killed our poor Red.
O
OMET
Guest
This obviously isn't a happy horse and something needs to be done for the poor chap.
If your RI is saying "hit him again if he bucks" then this really doesn't say much about her as a horse woman does it. I'm sorry but it doesn't take a genious to work out this horse is not happy doing what is being asked of him.
Personally, I would talk to the owner of the RS and voice your concerns to try and get this sorted out. The priority should be the horse in question but remember the RS is a business so this isn't always the case unfortunately
If your RI is saying "hit him again if he bucks" then this really doesn't say much about her as a horse woman does it. I'm sorry but it doesn't take a genious to work out this horse is not happy doing what is being asked of him.
Personally, I would talk to the owner of the RS and voice your concerns to try and get this sorted out. The priority should be the horse in question but remember the RS is a business so this isn't always the case unfortunately
Sorry i came across as a bit harsh it's just losing red was really upsetting due to other circumstance as well at the time. It is really difficult and you do feel guilty because you can't explain to the poor lad that the bit of discomfort is actually for his own good. He may be a little uncomfortable but the alternative could be a horse that totally seizes up and can't even walk to the field like Red was when he retired.
RS horses will all have an annual vetting for the RS to be licenced. They will all be checked for soundness of sight,heart and movement, lack of sores eg from ill fitting tack and condition. Tack will be checked for any defects. In some areas the vet will see the horses ridden but at the very least they will all be trotted up.
If this horse is stiff to the extent it shouldn't be ridden it will be excluded from use.
Not surprisingly a lot of RS ponies learn to do the minimum they think they can get away with so a bit of 'tough love' may be needed. Do you work in open order and can you do lots of transitions?. One of the big give away exercises with 'stiff' RS horses is to do a lot of transitions both indirect and direct in quick succession, ie every few strides, it never fails to work with mine who are 'pretending'!
If this horse is stiff to the extent it shouldn't be ridden it will be excluded from use.
Not surprisingly a lot of RS ponies learn to do the minimum they think they can get away with so a bit of 'tough love' may be needed. Do you work in open order and can you do lots of transitions?. One of the big give away exercises with 'stiff' RS horses is to do a lot of transitions both indirect and direct in quick succession, ie every few strides, it never fails to work with mine who are 'pretending'!
"Not surprisingly a lot of RS ponies learn to do the minimum they think they can get away with so a bit of 'tough love' may be needed."
I don't think you can assume that till all the health checks are done. Who knows when horse was last vetted.
I don't think you can assume that till all the health checks are done. Who knows when horse was last vetted.
newrider.com