Should Draught Horses jump? Discuss....

As an owner of a Shire, and someone who has worked with and nursed a few into arthritic retirement I would have to say no.
I ride mine, but never faster than trot. If I wanted more I would have bought a cross.
Ridden heavies are becoming more and more popular and alot of people seem to think they need to 'prove' they are as versatile as any other breed. I won't disagree they are capable of jumping, going XC and with the right schooling performing a decent dressage test but for me it's not so much can they as should they,and I'm not comfortable with that at all.

Yes they need to survive as breeds so being able to turn their hands to ridden work is necessary to an extent. Shires and clydes in particular are being bred taller and leggier and in some case this is making a better ridden horse so the breeds are naturally progressing this way but it still breaks my heart to see them being worked in pessoas and lunged and the like but I have to get over it!

That all said there are a couple of very well produced heavies that perform at a
reasonable level in dressage that are lovely to watch and that I know have been sympathetically brought on. Only time will tell how they fair into old age.

I only count heavy draughts in this, not cobs or crosses or ID's, who in my opinion are very well suited to ridden work generally.
 
The heavy breeds are prone to arthritis and issues with joints. That won't be because they have all been jumped, that is the sheer weight on the four legs.
Any horse can suffer with that though.

If the thread means the heavy breeds, it isn't going to give you a very smooth jump, so the owners of them probably wouldn't try it?
 
domane said:
I wasn't actually thinking of IDs.... I was thinking more of the really heavy set draught horses... the ones you'd see pulling logs or ploughing.....
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This is who I was thinking off as well, the more heavier draughts like your full bred Percherons, Clydies, Comtois and Ardennes type. You see a LOT of ID X's doing it and they do it rather well !
 
I ride a heavyweight cob (most likely shire cross), point him at a jump and you will have a hard time stopping him!!! He's not very good at the actual jumping bit though, much better at getting excited when he see's it coming bless him!

But like others have said if I wanted to do proper jumping I personally wouldn't buy a draught or a heavyweight. If I wanted to pop the odd log or have a play in the school every so often then no problem.
 
Louby*eko said:
Yes they need to survive as breeds so being able to turn their hands to ridden work is necessary to an extent. Shires and clydes in particular are being bred taller and leggier and in some case this is making a better ridden horse so the breeds are naturally progressing this way but it still breaks my heart to see them being worked in pessoas and lunged and the like but I have to get over it!
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I agree it is essential to their survival to be able to turn their hoof to more varied activities,but it is a shame people can't enhance on their natural ability or accomodate what they can't do rather than trying to change them and their capabilities completely.

For what it's worth I don't think it's you who needs to get over it,I think it's the people trying to make them something they're not that need to get over themselves TBH.

newforest said:
The heavy breeds are prone to arthritis and issues with joints. That won't be because they have all been jumped, that is the sheer weight on the four legs.
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Although I agree with you that heavies are much more prone to joint (and heart) issues due to supporting their own weight,activities like jumping will almost certainly speed up the process and/or worsen the extent of it.The amount of pressure on the hocks for take off and concussion on the front joints for landing can't really not cause problems on something that size TBH.
 
Haha newforest! That Clydie was just about stepping over them!

I used to ride a 16.2hh Clydesdale (his owner swore he was 17.2hh but he wasn't!). I never jumped Angus because his owner didn't want him jumped but whenever we went hacking and had to cross a ditch boy could that horse leap- about 1metre high from standing! He certainly would have been capable of it and loved to gallop.

When I worked at a big yard the horse I always ended up jumping (whether I wanted to or not!) was a 16.3hh ShireX called Edward. Very chunky, big bull neck, very round, quite slow (economical Edward!), very backward, could buck you off if he didn't feel like going (and he didn't feel like going most of the time- my record was being bucked off twice in 10 minutes in one lesson!) but he could JUMP. Used as a BHS Stage 4 XC horse, could easily clear 1m20 and when he WANTED to go he was the best jump horse ever! Clydie and Shire crosses can make brilliant sports horses. Edward did just look like a shire but with skinnier less hairy legs... :tongue:

I think it depends on the horse and what you want to do- I don't see the harm in popping something every now and then- like a log if out hacking, maybe a little course or whatever. Maybe not quite so suitable if you are a Whitaker...
 
newforest said:
I came across this footage. So the majority on here would feel this is totally inhumane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s5FHwyhF-w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I wouldn't personally jump a heavyweight over this.
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I would never say its Inhumane nf, that's a bit strong. I just think the amount of jumping some folk do is not suited to most heavies. I think you'd have to see my horse up close and personal to understand why I wouldn't want to jump more than the odd foot high log but I've heard of some people doing pretty well with comtois and clydies at cross country. Maybe show jumping competitively would be a little tough considering a clydesdale's turning circle but if it was part of a healthy mixture of different disciplines I don't see why they can't. I just wouldn't buy a heavy if your primary interest is jumping. But that's only my opinion, I wouldn't think others are cruel for doing that. Without the vet reports to show otherwise, it would be unfair to judge.
 
Perhaps my choice of word was a little strong-i was trying to put over that the odd jump isn't a big deal when you actually look at the bigger picture of horse cruelty and abuse on a daily even hourly basis.
What someone chooses to do is their business, and although i wouldn't jump a course on a heavy weight, if someone did that is up to them.
Its not really anything shocking compared to what things i have had the misfortune to see.
 
newforest said:
Perhaps my choice of word was a little strong-i was trying to put over that the odd jump isn't a big deal when you actually look at the bigger picture of horse cruelty and abuse on a daily even hourly basis.
What someone chooses to do is their business, and although i wouldn't jump a course on a heavy weight, if someone did that is up to them.
Its not really anything shocking compared to what things i have had the misfortune to see.
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Yeah agreed definitely.

Funny, this thread makes me truly acknowledge how stressy I am about joints and weight and being a heavy. I hear it from every angle - friends, vets, dentist, farrier, etc -'your horse isn't suited to x,y and z. It's a bit demoralising but I have no aspirations to do anything but happy hack so that's ok. Stupidly though I now find myself watching footage of light legged horses and worrying even about the stress on their bodies. But then I'd have them all wrapped in cotton wool if I could.
 
newforest said:
Perhaps my choice of word was a little strong-i was trying to put over that the odd jump isn't a big deal when you actually look at the bigger picture of horse cruelty and abuse on a daily even hourly basis.
What someone chooses to do is their business, and although i wouldn't jump a course on a heavy weight, if someone did that is up to them.
Its not really anything shocking compared to what things i have had the misfortune to see.
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This thread though wasn't about abuse or the horrors that we all know affect horses on a daily basis.No one said it was inhumane either as far as i'm aware??
It was questioning the wisdom of jumping heavy horses knowing the potential effects it can have on their joints.

Heavies *might* be able to do the 'odd jump' without any problems,they *might* be able to do a whole courses without issue (especially the more modern and lighter bred ones),but jumping a horse that can weigh over a ton and has legs as thick as tree trunks is not going to do it any favours and why would you anyway?? I think that's the part many people are commenting on TBH,if jumping is your thing why buy a carthorse to do it on??!!

I will admit to being a bit single minded on this but having owned one I do feel justified in that opinion.
When you have witnessed the sheer bulk of these dinosaurs and worked them it becomes very clear that their forte is not anything athletic or agile,and that supporting their own bodyweight is often hard enough on the joints without adding the stress of activities they are not meant,suited or designed for.

They are majestic and handsome animals,but they are not athletes,why can't we just accept that and be grateful for their many other attributes and qualities??
 
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