Question on training a young horse?!?

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starrynight

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Aug 13, 2008
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RIght well i've been thinking back on my last lesson, i was put on a young horse (4 year old dapple grey gelding - so handsome :) ) anyway, our normal RI was off sick so we had this woman who decided we would work on getting an outline from the horses.

I thought - 4 year old, take it easy, just warm up first and then ask. Well my instructor just told me to ask him straight away without even trotting a bit first so i did as she said and he was a bit on and off but he was definately getting there! I was so impressed with him so i thought a little rest then try it on the other rein in walk. This RI was so patronising and told me to keep going and get him into trot and do it in trot, the thing is that he isn't very well established yet, he skips into trot like he is about to canter then settles so i didn't think it was very fair to immediately get him to trot and work in an outline straight away. Anyway i forgot about what she said and settled him and asked him and again he was inconsistant but he was definately trying. Towards the end of the lesson the RI said she wanted us to do a walk to canter transition (which i thought was strange since we hadn't even cantered the whole lesson!) she made me go first and the poor boy was so confused but on the third attempt got it perfectly.

I was so pleased with him, i'd never ridden him before but i thought he went really well. The other girls who have ridden him said i was good with him as he usually throws in bucks and a few stops and general baby-ish behaviour! BUT i've never really ridden a young horse before, well one that is still in their training, and i just wondered if what this instructor was asking and expecting was reasonable. I thought you should keep a young horse occupied (we were riding around a tiny section of the arena and we could have used the full one) but not ask too much? and i thought you should warm up properly before even attempting to ask for an outline? I was just slightly confused. i suppose everyones opinions on this will be different, i just wondered as its quite a new area for me!

Thanks for reading - turned out to be quite an essay!!! I would be really grateful for your input though :)
 
For a four year old I would have thought that this would be too much if he is that green.:confused:

Why are they using four year olds in lessons??? Seems a bit odd to me.

Fair enough asking for it of a more schooled 4yr old but walk to canter when his trot isnt established isnt my idea of correct training.

Just my view not to held as gospel lol :p:D

Nikki xxxx
 
I definitely wouldn't be pushing a 4 year old (or any horse) to work in an outline from the word go. They need a chance to warm up and loosen any stiff muscles etc before they start trying to work in an outline. If it's a 4 year old that's had a reasonable amount of schooling, expecting him to start to come down onto the bit a little is fair enough, but it would be a fairly long low outline you'd be expecting as he wouldn't be developed and advanced enough for anything harder. I also wouldn't expect him to remain consistently on the bit at that age.

I'd find it a bit odd doing walk-canter having not cantered, although on some horses that may suit their temperament better. Know if it was the first time he was asked to do it? I vaguely remember when we were learning (and teaching the younger school horses too) we'd start off in canter, then as we came to a corner come back to trot then walk in time to ask for canter a couple of strides later in the corner. We'd do that a few times to they got the idea they could canter from walk, then work on doing walk-canter transitions with no trot.

My riding school quite often had youngsters in our lessons (as we were the more advanced riders), so it was quite usual to be faced with a 4, 5 or 6 year old who was still babyish at times. Maybe not ideal in some ways, but we did learn a lot from it, and the instructors always made allowances for the level the horse was currently at.
 
It is illegal for any horse under the age of 5yrs to be used in lessons by a client in a Riding School so;

A) this chap shouldn't be in lessons
B) he shouldn't be pushed to working at this level yet anyway

I really do not like the sound of your RS. Is it BHS approved? If it is then they shouldn't be doing the above
 
Not true OMET. Fine to use a 4yo.
Maybe the inconsistencies were down to how you were asking hiim - he might not have been used to your language.

I have horses that need to be worked from the word go - doesn't mean they work any bette or worse than other horses, it just suits them. Sometimes with young horses it doesn't pay to give them an inch, its safer for all concerned to set the boundaries, without bullying them or making them uncomfortable - but to get the job done.

But each to their own - it is an established fact on this board that I expect too much from my youngsters!
 
They are BHS approved, obviously not mentioning any names, they are actually seen as a "top class", well respected riding school. The instructor knew he was only 4, she also said about him and another horse there that she hadn't seen either of them work and when i mentioned about the skipping into trot thing she even said "well he is young, i'd expect him to be a bit unbalanced". I think she was a stand in, i've never seen her so i think she was called in at short notice. TBH, you can probably tell i didn't think much of this RI and she is not our usual one and the horse has been in all our lessons (we are an intermediate group) before and the normal RI has made exception and given him different "tasks" in the lessons.

I suppose i just tried to do what i thought was right. I think with a proper warm up he might have been slightly better because the skipping stopped towards the end of the lesson and once he actually started trotting he was fine. Some of the other girls have ridden him and said roughly the same of him, they actually said he was worse when doing trot to canter and i do know horses who need to canter before they settle and will trot "properly" but i'm assuming thats a bit of a bad habit which is why i would have assumed that you'd be better working on trot to canter first with a young horse. I also know that different horses respond better to slightly different aids and riders so it could have just been me! :p
 
I know many schools who use youngsters in their lessons which I think is asking both a lot of the youngster and the riders TBH - I spend a lesson on a 4 year old at another RS being told to constantly saw with the reins to get the horse on a contact which I was also not happy doing. You're paying for the lesson so if you don't want to ride the horse that way you are entitled to say so.
 
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Riding Schools I have worked in (I am a qualified RI who now teaches freelance) have always stated that it goes against insurance legalities to have any horse "in the RS" whom is under the age of four. Bearing in mind horses are normally backed at the age of 3yrs, I think having a 4yr old in lessons is ridiculous and totally unfair on both the horse in question and the rider.
 
my horse is 4 and i work him in a outline and do walk to canter transitions. however he warms up on a longer rein in what i call a free outline in walk trot and canter be for i ask him for a outline. also, i am the only one who rides my horse and so know what he can and cant do.
i think it is crazy of the RI to ask a 4 year old to do walk to canter with a new rider and they havent even cantered yet.
and when i work my horse in an outline, he has to be forward, balanced, obedient, and bending correctly before i ask for the outline. so if yours was skipping into trot(mine used to, feels like hes about to canter but then trots?) i would work on correcting this before working on the outline defo.
 
I think it is fine to use a 4 year old in riding school lessons providing that the rider is capable to ride a 4 year old and actually help progression in their education. If they are going to ride them and "ruin" them, then that is wrong.

I think your RI was very harsh and thoughtless, I don't think its fair to ride any horse in an outline if it is not warmed up. And then walk-canter when you haven't even done any canter in the lesson... :eek:
 
To be accurate it is not an insurance issue but is not allowed under the Riding Establishment Licence to have horses under the age of 4.

I agree that most 4 year olds should not be in general lessons but if they are not available for career students to work with then we are failing to educate those students.

RS needs a balance between schoolmasters to teach riders and horses in need of some training for competent riders to work with and prgress their knowledge.
 
I'll be honest i know nothing about the legalities, i would just have assumed that it was mostly common sense. And i'm confused as 2/3 riding schools i have been to have had foals, yearling, horses they are breaking etc obviously they only let staff ride these horses and generally handle them except on rare occasions when the youngster was "sane" and the handler experienced enough to deal with it and always under the supervision of a member of staff. One riding school had a three year old who was possibly one of the calmest horses i've ever met on the ground and i put her feed in and groomed her and rugged her. Obviously wearing a hat etc and i feel as long as the horse has been "assessed", as it were, for "use" in the school then surely this is ok?!? A 20 year old could be just as dangerous as a youngster? Personally i'd rather experience riding a youngster in an RS where people (should) know the horse and who is suited to ride him and give advice rather then just jump on one/buy one by myself and not have a scooby what to do?- Again just my thoughts...

Really what i was asking (although i realise that the use of the horse would probably be subject to debate) was in a general riding situation what would have been the best way to ride/train/develop the horse? Obviously, warming up, but what then? Like i said I don't have much experience or knowledge in this area which is why i'm questioning what the RI said. I suppose i rambled a bit and didn't get my question across as i would have liked first time so thought i better correct it!!! :)
 
pineapple said:
feels like hes about to canter but then trots?) i would work on correcting this before working on the outline defo.
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Exactly like that. And i brought it up with the RI and like i said she almost brushed it off as youngster behaviour without giving me advice on how to work towards correcting it. I was getting told to continue riding it and ask for an outline but i would have thought that i should let him settle in trot for a few strides, bring him back to walk and try again until he understands? I did feel uncomfortable asking for walk to canter without having done trot to canter a few times first to get a feel for him, and reassure myself he had no 'quirks' that would have suprised me!
 
with my 4 year old. i walk alot on both reins to start, trying to get a length of neck in the walk , nice over track and really relax the horse. i aim to get him to walk, down the long side slightly off the track( so i know he is balanced if he doesnt fall in) with his head no higher than his whithers. then i shorten the reins a little and trot on both reins, the canter on both reing and maybe a few 20m circles. still working long and low.
next i go back to walk and shorten the reins to normal length and then i work on bend and getting a constant contact. working on 20m circles getting a slight inside bend then going down the long sides keeping this slight inside bend. the horse gradually comes on the bit just from doing this( my horse did anyway!!) i repeat this in trot and canter.
then for the meaty part of the lesson, i might at some 15/12m circles, some serpentines and half circles back to the track,in trot, to work on bend and outline. then maybe some working canter on the short side and some lengthened canter up the long sides. or some pole/jumping work to add variation.(only jump when the horse is happy with all the above!) also halt to trot and trot to halt and canter to walk and walk to canter.and leg yield in all paces would come next.
(i wouldnt do all that in one session neither!!! but to finish i repeat my warm up, long and low in all paces, finishing with enough walk to cool off any sweat.

the skipping will fade as he becomes more balanced and matures. makes sure you dont restrict with the hand when he goes into trot, and try to get the transition as sharp and forward as you can. and then yes, get him get into rhythm before working on the bit or on circles or anything really. for example ask for trot just coming off the short side eg at k and just trot down the long side then at h you can start asking for more bend, which will encourage him to go on the bit, but gives him chance to balance himself first.
 
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I think the problem here is the RI who did not know the horse.

It is difficult to generalise as every horse is different. Lots of youngsters appear to hop into trot like this and basically need a lot more preparation for the transition, if I see it happening with one of mine who tends to do it I always remind the rider to 'think (rider prepares), warn (prepare horse half halt etc) and then ask (aid to trot)' which always works with him.

Equally we have horses who need to warm up on a loose rein and others who if you did not ask for forwards into the hand at the outset would never work correctly. There is no general rule. RIs really need to know their horses.
 
very true eml, it think maybe this is why he felt better towards the end when i got used to riding him and knew how to respond to his behaviour and ask for something. He was a fidget and i think he did just want to go and do his job :) And i did feel like i needed more guidance and the RI wasn't able to give it, i understand she was called in at short notice and doesn't work there full time (from what i can see) but she didn't take much time to assess our riding and the horse etc!
 
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