Pelhams. Advice required

J

jenmac_85

Guest
Ok, so I had previously posted about putting Tyler in a Dutch gag when doing XC as the monster gets too excited.

Bought the Dutch Gag and have tried it twice. He seemed Ok, but the second time he refused to move.

Spoke to my RI this morning and she was very keen that I didnt use the Dutch gag, but suggested a Pelham instead.

Hands up, and I realise I may get my head bitten off, but I roughly knew how a Dutch gag worked and honestly thought I had gone the right way. Instead my RI feels that a pelham would be strong enough to let me keep the brakes but not as severe as a dutch gag.

Heres the sticking point. I have no idea about Pelhams. RI is letting me try one of hers to let me have a shot, but I would love some advice on them.

Fortunately Tyler is being ridden in a snaffle at the moment with no flash, although (hypocritcal consdering some of my previous posts) it has been sggested that the flash when doing XC or out jumping on grass might help.

So abandoning Dutch gag and heading the pelham route.

That goodness that Tyler is laid back and incrediably forgiving. Poor boy :(
 
HI!:)

Sorry this is a long one.......

IMHO......

I ride 2 of my horses in Pelhams. I ALWAYS use 2 sets of reins with a Pelham as to use roundings, IMO, 'defeats the object'. With a Pelham and the 2 sets of reins held correctly, the 'top rein' from the bit (I'll call it the snaffle rein) is your 'usual rein' (if you get what I mean). If the horse gets a bit onward-bound, strong or raises his head, you can twist your wrist to get the bottom rein from the bit (the curb rein) into play for a 'reminder' that you have VERY adequate brakes! The bottom rein applies curb pressure and poll pressure - as long as your horse tolerates these, you should be fine! SOME horses object to one or both!! When using roundings with a Pelham, there is no real 'definition' between the reins. There's not a whole load of difference, IMO, between a pelham with roundings and a Kimblewick!

It takes a while to get used to riding with 2 pairs of reins, but once you do, riding with one pair feels very 'alien'! Holding them takes some practice, especially 'crossing' them - It's almost impossible for me to describe in words the correct way of holding them - Your RI should know!!!

If this makes sense... I described to a child pupil like this...

With someone holding the horse, and you sat on the horse, drop all your reins (both sets) and make sure they are all 'laying level' and even. Pick up the 'snaffle' set - usually the wider set - of reins and hold them normally. Then, whilst still holding these reins, using your pointy and middle fingers which you make a 'V' sign with - but keep them together, not in a 'V' ...(The kid understood me!!) pick up the bottom curb rein - usually the narrower set. Then make all the reins an even length. There should be your pointy and middle finger, then the curb rein, then your ring finger, then the snaffle rein, then your little finger!!! At first, until you get used to 2 pairs of reins, have less contact on the bottom curb set. Some horses only need a VERY light contact on the curb rein anyway. You should see that the reins are 'crossed' on the horses's neck if you look from the side - i.e. the 'snaffle' thicker set go from higher on the bit to lower in your hand, and the narrower curb rein goes from lower down the bit to higher in your hand! OMG does this make sense??? :eek::p

There is an alternative way of holding the reins, so they are 'one finger lower down' - your curb rein goes between your ring and little finger, and your snaffle rein goes under your little finger - different 'schools of thought'. I use the first way!!

Technically a dutch gag can (and in 'my school of thought' should) be used with 2 pairs of reins. The top set can be attached to the 'softest' ring, and a second set to the lower ring. The wrist can then be turned to apply more poll pressure (if that is what works for your horse) by instigating a firmer contact with the bottom sent of reins. I personally do not like this bit and won't use one. Just personal preference and opinion.

Your instructor is the best person to advise you, and I wouldn't 'write off' a Pelham - it can restrict you competition wise (e.g. dressage!) but some horses just 'transform' when ridden in a Pelham. And of course, some don't!!

My Welsh D is bordering on psychotic, and there's no way on earth I can ride him out ('out' here means fast across the open plains, through rivers, etc!) without a Pelham. One 'tweek' with the bottom curb rein is enough to bring him right back 'under me' and have perfect control. He is very happy in his low-port Pelham, but hates a single-jointed bit of any description (e.g. Eggbutt Snaffle). I could only ever compete him SJ with the Pelham, and double reins.

Only you (and presumably your RI) know your horse - you may need to play around to find a bit which provised 'better brakes'!

Sorry if I've offended or confused anyone, but bits and bitting are my little 'bug bear' and 'hobby' if you like!

I have a trade catalogue here (the guy I live with here is a saddler!) from a bit manufacturer with over 300 bits in it - Anyone fancy a 'cheese grater snaffle'????? Ouch!! Thought not!!

Hope this has been some help - if you want to chat further, feel free to PM me!

I'm not an instructor, just someone who has experience of bitting literally hundreds of horses!!

Good luck!!

K
 
Actually a kimblewick is more like a pelham used with two reins; the difference is that a kimblewick is designed to be used with one rein and a pelham with two. The snaffle/curb action on a kimblewick is controlled by lowering or raising the hands; the snaffle/curb action on a pelham depends instead on which rein you use.

Using a set of roundings on a pelham 'fuzzies' that action; but the same is not true of a kimblewick, because it's designed for use with one rein in the first place.

The kimblewick is kind of in between the pelham with two reins, and with roundings - it's a good choice if you want to use a pelham but are not confident about using two reins.
 
A kimblewick is in the pelham family, and they have a similar object/action ... I think a pelham just has more leverage.

To save time and space, ditto the others!

Time and error is the key for bitting .. try it and see how it works for both you and your horse.

x
 
Has to be said that I think I would find two reins fairly confusing so anything with single reins is fab. :D
 
2 reins isnt that bad really, i find it weird and too light and un-bulky in my hands to ride with single reins.

i like pelhams over kimblewicks even though you can control the curb the kimblewick gives, i just dont think to as great an extent
 
:) Sorry Chev, I didn't explain what I meant very well, and maybe I was a bit confusing! :confused: Entirely agree over the Kimblewick - I really didn't make it very clear, or go into enough 'Kimblewick detail'! Using a Kimblewick as you said (lowering/raising the hands) does indeed affect the action of the snaffle/curb and would be an alternative to the Pelham if the rider only wanted one set of reins, and IMHO, preferable to a Pelham with roundings!

And thanks Chev for '....fuzzies the action...' - I was trying to think of how to say it!!!! Sometimes I can't think of what I'm trying to say in English anymore! I've spoken Hungarian 'saddlery and tack' all day (repairs for the local riding school!) and my brain gets mighty confused...!

I got so engrossed trying to explain the '2 sets of reins' thing.....

...I lost the plot!:eek:

(Many years ago some say...!) ;)

K
 
Dutch gag?

One of the things that confuses me no end is when people talk about a Dutch gag when in fact they're using a three ring snaffle. Can the OP clarify if it was a true Dutch gag or a three ring snaffle with the reins on a ring below the snaffle rings?

I ride in a three ring snaffle, on the snaffle ring at the moment, but will use one ring lower when hacking as Janne can be strong and willful. I plan on introducing double reins in this bit to give me much finer control.

I have used a vulcanite mullen-mouthed Pelham with roundings on a different horse and you really have to have very light hands, two reins is much better.
 
Trixie said:
One of the things that confuses me no end is when people talk about a Dutch gag when in fact they're using a three ring snaffle. Can the OP clarify if it was a true Dutch gag or a three ring snaffle with the reins on a ring below the snaffle rings?

I ride in a three ring snaffle, on the snaffle ring at the moment, but will use one ring lower when hacking as Janne can be strong and willful. I plan on introducing double reins in this bit to give me much finer control.

I have used a vulcanite mullen-mouthed Pelham with roundings on a different horse and you really have to have very light hands, two reins is much better.
Click to expand...


I can't find any reference right now to any kind of dutch gag which is not a x-ring snaffle - where X can be 3 or 4.
 
TBH i think that a Dutch Gag is pretty standard and if you mention it many people know what your talking about.

Jen i would try the kimblewick or the Hanging cheek over the Pelham with double reins. If needs be you can borrow Mr K's loop ring.

The flash is a good idea see how you get on with that first, I know you dont like it but it may work.

Nikki xxxx
 
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