Out of the blue big spooks

[Wilfred]

So we’ve now had our new pony Wilfred (not registered but think Welsh D) for 12 weeks and it has been a bumpy journey (previous post will explain all lol) but we’ve been working really hard on groundwork, had some help from a fab NH trainer, and are now trying to get back to riding him more and building ours and his confit in each other.
My question is that mostly he is fab and but if he does spook it’s really occasional but unexpected and quite violent ie bolting off in terror which is how my daughter came off and under him, terrifying herself and me. We’ve had an experienced rider working him a bit and she stayed seated but I don’t think we would.
We’ve done desensitising etc and it’s the fact he can be fine yet spot something out of the corner of his eye that no else can see and flee.
He is gorgeous in every way to handle but the fear of ‘what if’ is holding back our confidence in riding him especially in open spaces.

 

[Skib]

If a non spooky pony changes, it could be an eye sight thing?

 

[carthorse]

It's a bit of a Welsh thing, it will improve as you grow to trust each other more. @Skib has a point about eyesight and if you have other reasons to doubt it then get it checked out, but my money is on Welsh.

With this type you do have to be very on the ball and aware of your surroundings, no daydreaming or admiring the scenery for you! Keep his focus n you, and if you spot a potential dragon ride rather than hope. Some are better if you let them stop to have a look when they spot something, in which case you have to be aware of when he's first seen something and not keep pushing him on until he feels unsafe - halt, reassure, wait for him to relax and then ride on confidently not forgetting to praise him when he's gone past sensibly. This doesn't work for all though, some are better kept focused on the rider and ridden securely up to the bridle so they don't have time for monster spotting. Time and trying different approaches will tell you which you have and how to deal with it, it will also improve your riding so you can ride any spooks you don't prevent. For what it's worth I'd be surprised if he's bolting off in terror, more shooting forward as a startle reflex - bolting is very serious, a bolting horse isn't going to pull up and is very likely to go in a straight line for a significant distance regardless of his surroundings and obstacles.

I'm afraid no matter how hard you try you can't desensitize to everything, and from my experience even if you get them used to something in one place they can take offence at it somewhere else. It's more a case of building their trust in you, your confidence in yourself and your skills in dealing with it.

I've almost certainly said this before but can you get in touch with his previous owners and ask them if they had this problem and how they dealt with it? If they didn't was it because they rode him in a different way and so it didn't arise?

 

[Wilfred]

It's a bit of a Welsh thing, it will improve as you grow to trust each other more. @Skib has a point about eyesight and if you have other reasons to doubt it then get it checked out, but my money is on Welsh.

With this type you do have to be very on the ball and aware of your surroundings, no daydreaming or admiring the scenery for you! Keep his focus n you, and if you spot a potential dragon ride rather than hope. Some are better if you let them stop to have a look when they spot something, in which case you have to be aware of when he's first seen something and not keep pushing him on until he feels unsafe - halt, reassure, wait for him to relax and then ride on confidently not forgetting to praise him when he's gone past sensibly. This doesn't work for all though, some are better kept focused on the rider and ridden securely up to the bridle so they don't have time for monster spotting. Time and trying different approaches will tell you which you have and how to deal with it, it will also improve your riding so you can ride any spooks you don't prevent. For what it's worth I'd be surprised if he's bolting off in terror, more shooting forward as a startle reflex - bolting is very serious, a bolting horse isn't going to pull up and is very likely to go in a straight line for a significant distance regardless of his surroundings and obstacles.

I'm afraid no matter how hard you try you can't desensitize to everything, and from my experience even if you get them used to something in one place they can take offence at it somewhere else. It's more a case of building their trust in you, your confidence in yourself and your skills in dealing with it.

I've almost certainly said this before but can you get in touch with his previous owners and ask them if they had this problem and how they dealt with it? If they didn't was it because they rode him in a different way and so it didn't arise?

Thank you @carthorse , I think you may be right?! My worry is probably my own confidence as when my daughter came off him he was a nervous wreck for days as it obviously upset him and I need to get my balance and seat better as got him as a safe and serene ride mother ride and a fun safe daughter ride
I love him to bits already but just concerned that neither myself or my 10 year old daughter Have not got the current riding skills (rewind 30 years and I would have been fine?) to manage these spooks and I don’t want any broken bones.
Reassuring that maybe it’s just time?
Thanks @Skib too will definitely consider the eyes too!!

 

[carthorse]

@Wilfred my Welsh D was one of the safest rides you could wish for but if he was in that frame if mind he could throw in some good spooks - he preferred leaping sidewards to dashing forward - and I could tell he thought it was a grand game. As long as he wasn't doing it a place that was dangerous I tended to ignore it, but if it started to get out excessive then a tap with my hand on the neck and a firm "enough" would produce a sigh and the game would stop, though he'd feel so disappointed I would feel like quite the spoilsport. The fact he was so upset by your daughter coming off makes me wonder if it's his version of the same game? Little Un would have been horrified if his playing had a rider off! Perhaps you need to find your version of that firm "enough" and if you feel his attention wandering keep him a bit more focused on you so he doesn't have time to play games - hacking one of the easier ways of doing this without getting into a fight is to say tot so many strides then walk a different number, then trot a different number, then maybe very slow trot a number. Keep the numbers small, maybe only aiming for five or six strides before changing, and vary the number because if he's as clever as many Welshies he'll pick up on any pattern and then go back to dragon spotting. It'll also keep you thinking rather than worrying, and encourage you to ride him forward and sit securely - win win. And don't be afraid to either have a neck strap or a strap between the saddle D rings so you have something you can grab if that makes you feel more confident.

 

[Doodle92]

Mine is a spooky pain in the backside. Some days better than others. Echo what carthorse says about different things suiting different horses. With Robin he gets worried if you are a passenger, the quieter I sit the more anxious he gets. He is much better being “ridden” by that I mean a cuddling leg and a soft rein contact. If he does see something a little nudge and a “you are fine, come on “ is better than stop and look and let him relax. If I do that I have reinforced to him that there is an issue as I have noticed too. “Don’t even look at it” and bend the other way works. His specialty is the spook and spin 180 move. If I get annoyed at him for spooning he gets worse. But if he does his “oh what can I spook at? Oh that will do” over reaction i will tell him off. However he is what he is, he will not change now no matter how much desensitisation I do. About the second thing I was told when I viewed him was he is spooky. The best way to sit the spins is to be relaxed. I do 100% trust him to past anything tho even if it is with a large amount of snorting and bananaing

 

[Wilfred]

@Wilfred my Welsh D was one of the safest rides you could wish for but if he was in that frame if mind he could throw in some good spooks - he preferred leaping sidewards to dashing forward - and I could tell he thought it was a grand game. As long as he wasn't doing it a place that was dangerous I tended to ignore it, but if it started to get out excessive then a tap with my hand on the neck and a firm "enough" would produce a sigh and the game would stop, though he'd feel so disappointed I would feel like quite the spoilsport. The fact he was so upset by your daughter coming off makes me wonder if it's his version of the same game? Little Un would have been horrified if his playing had a rider off! Perhaps you need to find your version of that firm "enough" and if you feel his attention wandering keep him a bit more focused on you so he doesn't have time to play games - hacking one of the easier ways of doing this without getting into a fight is to say tot so many strides then walk a different number, then trot a different number, then maybe very slow trot a number. Keep the numbers small, maybe only aiming for five or six strides before changing, and vary the number because if he's as clever as many Welshies he'll pick up on any pattern and then go back to dragon spotting. It'll also keep you thinking rather than worrying, and encourage you to ride him forward and sit securely - win win. And don't be afraid to either have a neck strap or a strap between the saddle D rings so you have something you can grab if that makes you feel more confident.

Love the term dragon spotting we saw some helium balloons out on a hack the other day and he looked like a dragon and would have claimed a tree if he could!!
I’m going to buy a neck strap as that has been something that’s stuck me that there’s nowhere to grab and yes it’s a sideways leap and forward as fast as he can go.
He’s super clever so will try your trot tips to keep his mind engaged
Ps daughter is still too nervous to ride him

 

[carthorse]

Can you get your daughter some lessons at a school with safe horses so she gets her confidence back? In the meantime if you're riding him and start getting to understand him and how to deal with the spooks you'll all feel a lot more confident.

 

[Wilfred]

Mine is a spooky pain in the backside. Some days better than others. Echo what carthorse says about different things suiting different horses. With Robin he gets worried if you are a passenger, the quieter I sit the more anxious he gets. He is much better being “ridden” by that I mean a cuddling leg and a soft rein contact. If he does see something a little nudge and a “you are fine, come on “ is better than stop and look and let him relax. If I do that I have reinforced to him that there is an issue as I have noticed too. “Don’t even look at it” and bend the other way works. His specialty is the spook and spin 180 move. If I get annoyed at him for spooning he gets worse. But if he does his “oh what can I spook at? Oh that will do” over reaction i will tell him off. However he is what he is, he will not change now no matter how much desensitisation I do. About the second thing I was told when I viewed him was he is spooky. The best way to sit the spins is to be relaxed. I do 100% trust him to past anything tho even if it is with a large amount of snorting and bananaing

Ha ha I’d love to get to the position that you and @carthorse are when you have such confidence about dealing with and actually seeing it as part of their personality! I’m just hoping we can get there in time. I try and tell myself to relax but I know he feels it down the reins and then thinks that clearly we should all be terrified together

 

[Wilfred]

Can you get your daughter some lessons at a school with safe horses so she gets her confidence back? In the meantime if you're riding him and start getting to understand him and how to deal with the spooks you'll all feel a lot more confident.

Yes she’s still riding at the local riding school where we know them well, I think she thinks he just a bit much for her, but does love him too.

 

[Doodle92]

Oh believe me it took me years until I wasn’t scared of hacking him and worked out how to ride him (my previous horse needed the opposite). I came off him on Friday for the first time in 18months which I see as a huge positive. I am now thankfully in a place where my hacking buddies get more of a fright when he spooks than me.

The neck strap idea is a good one. I always ride him in one. I rarely use it but definitely get confidence knowing it is there.

 

[carthorse]

You will get there @Wilfred , remember you haven't been riding for a while (if I remember rightly) so you need to get back up to strength and speed too. My current lad is part Welsh (if you fancy a nose look at my diary thread) and I've had him just under a year now but even with experience of very alert and forward horses I had moments when I'd be telling myself "breathe, out sit up, leg on, hand forward" as he tried to dash forward or coiled up in a stressy mess. New horses take time to settle in, some take longer than others, and it takes time to get to know each other too. Hang on in there if you can, spend time together doing things you're confident with and trust yourself

 

[Jessey]

Lots of good advise here, I’d really just be echoing the others.

 

[Mary Poppins]

This may be a unpopular opinion, but I would rehome him to someone more experienced who won’t be un seated or un-nerved by his spooks. In my experience it is very difficult to prevent a horse from spooking, they either spook or they don’t. When they do, you have to be able to deal with it. Many riders love the thrill and unpredictable behaviour of spooky horses, others like safe and predictable. If you are going to take a spooky horse out hacking, you need to be able to control him.

I know you love him, but love isn’t enough to keep you safe. When you take a horse out hacking you need a high degree of competence to keep yourself, the horse and the general public safe. Otherwise it is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Wilfred]

This may be a unpopular opinion, but I would rehome him to someone more experienced who won’t be un seated or un-nerved by his spooks. In my experience it is very difficult to prevent a horse from spooking, they either spook or they don’t. When they do, you have to be able to deal with it. Many riders love the thrill and unpredictable behaviour of spooky horses, others like safe and predictable. If you are going to take a spooky horse out hacking, you need to be able to control him.

I know you love him, but love isn’t enough to keep you safe. When you take a horse out hacking you need a high degree of competence to keep yourself, the horse and the general public safe. Otherwise it is an accident waiting to happen.

Thank you @Mary Poppins every opinion is welcome , I suppose I’m looking for tips and encouragement to improve my confidence with him , something has definitely happened in my 40’s (maybe the dreaded M ) where my confidence and belief in my capabilities has hit the floor, also probably the concern for my daughters safety hence the love of this forum the confidence club. I was actually a very competent rider (me in pic a fews back) back but am going to go back to a thick neckstrap!
You never know though and you may be right in that I decide he’s not the right one for us but for now I would like to try

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

Buddy spooks but i laugh at him he does wonderful disappearances from beneath you and ends up on other side of the road and will occasionally spin and leg it. But i know him very well and just get him back and off we go again. He never legs it for more than a few strides. I started with him after 8 years off when I was 58 and definitely not wanting to fall off. He and I are fine together, he is very reliable apart from the odd episode of real fear and the rest are checking if i am awake. I have total confidence in him despite is occasional horizontal levitations. He is convinced that there is a dragon behind a specific green gate. It's just part of his goofy personality and I love him for it.Problem you have is that you don't have the confidence in the horse which escalates the issues and makes them worse. And having had an incident it knocks your confidence. Definitely have a neck strap on and keep his attention focussed and maybe get the other rider to do more with him. I am re-starting Suze after she dumped me last year and broke my ribs, we are doing a huge amount of ground work, working on what happened when she bucked me off - which was i asked her to straighten on the right rein, she resisted, I was a bit more forceful with the aid and she fly bucked across the field and i came off backwards. She has a slight tendency to resist on right, never left, so before i think of getting on board, we are doing a lot of turns to the right in the field, serpentines, anything to keep her very soft and pliant. We do a lot of walk back up trot walk back up sideways to ensure she is really listening all from the ground. I want to feel sure that this little resistance is well and truly sorted as i don't want a repeat on board.

 

[Skib]

I have a monkey strap on the saddle. I find it more helpful than a neck strap for which one has to lean forward.

 

[Wilfred]

Buddy spooks but i laugh at him he does wonderful disappearances from beneath you and ends up on other side of the road and will occasionally spin and leg it. But i know him very well and just get him back and off we go again. He never legs it for more than a few strides. I started with him after 8 years off when I was 58 and definitely not wanting to fall off. He and I are fine together, he is very reliable apart from the odd episode of real fear and the rest are checking if i am awake. I have total confidence in him despite is occasional horizontal levitations. He is convinced that there is a dragon behind a specific green gate. It's just part of his goofy personality and I love him for it.Problem you have is that you don't have the confidence in the horse which escalates the issues and makes them worse. And having had an incident it knocks your confidence. Definitely have a neck strap on and keep his attention focussed and maybe get the other rider to do more with him. I am re-starting Suze after she dumped me last year and broke my ribs, we are doing a huge amount of ground work, working on what happened when she bucked me off - which was i asked her to straighten on the right rein, she resisted, I was a bit more forceful with the aid and she fly bucked across the field and i came off backwards. She has a slight tendency to resist on right, never left, so before i think of getting on board, we are doing a lot of turns to the right in the field, serpentines, anything to keep her very soft and pliant. We do a lot of walk back up trot walk back up sideways to ensure she is really listening all from the ground. I want to feel sure that this little resistance is well and truly sorted as i don't want a repeat on board.

That’s brilliant @diplomaticandtactful I love that you’re still riding and clearly having fun which all of this is supposed to be?!! I know really it’s my confidence and the fact we don’t really know him yet. I do know that he’s really nice boy just with a few nerves and I do think if we can get there he will be exactly what we’re after. I don’t really want to fall off though as I’m not sure I’d bounce back quite as easily, hope the ribs made a full recovery and thanks for your message

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

That’s brilliant @diplomaticandtactful I love that you’re still riding and clearly having fun which all of this is supposed to be?!! I know really it’s my confidence and the fact we don’t really know him yet. I do know that he’s really nice boy just with a few nerves and I do think if we can get there he will be exactly what we’re after. I don’t really want to fall off though as I’m not sure I’d bounce back quite as easily, hope the ribs made a full recovery and thanks for your message

Just been out on him for 40 minutes, windy day, wheelie bins out, so lots to have a look at. He was full of himself, he has his first show in a couple of weeks as we do veteran in hand with him. Ribs are fine, confidence a bit less so, as it really hurt and being a draft horse, I was surprised that she could buck very well, given the effort in getting that big bum upon the air. So taking it very slowly with her before I get back on board. I backed her myself and was very sure of her until that little mishap, she was very very good. For a heavy horse, she is very sharp and light, probably the only bitless comtois in the UK. Most of them get started in heavy bits as folks expect them to be strong. I do a lot of ground work with her to keep her very responsive to voice and not to run through the bridle which she has done when excited. My main problem is that we are straight out onto the road from here so i have to be sure of her for our own safety.

 

[Wilfred]

I have a monkey strap on the saddle. I find it more helpful than a neck strap for which one has to lean forward.

Ok- I May get them all?!

Just been out on him for 40 minutes, windy day, wheelie bins out, so lots to have a look at. He was full of himself, he has his first show in a couple of weeks as we do veteran in hand with him. Ribs are fine, confidence a bit less so, as it really hurt and being a draft horse, I was surprised that she could buck very well, given the effort in getting that big bum upon the air. So taking it very slowly with her before I get back on board. I backed her myself and was very sure of her until that little mishap, she was very very good. For a heavy horse, she is very sharp and light, probably the only bitless comtois in the UK. Most of them get started in heavy bits as folks expect them to be strong. I do a lot of ground work with her to keep her very responsive to voice and not to run through the bridle which she has done when excited. My main problem is that we are straight out onto the road from here so i have to be sure of her for our own safety.

weve done tons of groundwork (he’s very clever!) and actually doing our first in hand show with Wilfred this weekend entering unregistered mountain and moorland and best turned out (we don’t care where we come!) also my daughter doing some of the fun most handsome gelding, fancy dress (non spooky outfit) etc
We have the same straight onto road issue which is probably why my nerves are shot- large open fields with scary monster in trees or roads with tractors and lots going on.
We are actually moving him down the road on Sunday day to a yard with an arena and hoping this may also help.
Brilliant that you backed her yourself, hope you get your full confidence back, you certainly sound like you know what your doing.
I think it’s going to take me a while x