In a pickle!

notpoodle

notpoodle

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Jul 16, 2003
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im trying to figure out where i am going wrong :rolleyes:

down the long side of the school, angel often does what i call the 'banana of death': she bends to the outside (thus locking her neck ....) and tries to pee off towards the middle of the school sideways whilst still looking the wrong way (its like shoulder out gone horribly wrong ...). shes alright in walk, but trot and canter can be hazardous.

im sure its something i do :rolleyes:

to stop her doing this, i am currently following advice along these lines:

keep outside rein contact to keep pony straight

open inside hand slightly

shift weight to the outside if she does 'the manoevre'

at the same time, keep looking where i want to go ie round the next corner

keep whip on her inside shoulder as a reminder

im finding this very hard to co-ordinate! last night i looked something like this

weight in outer stirrup whilst bellybutton looking round the bend

outside rein 'on' whilst inside arm opening wider and wider whilst still keeping the whip on the inside shoulder.

HELP!

what to do?

I am having the odd lesson btw but cant do them regularly as im relying on a friend to teach me :)

Julia
x
 
if i were teaching you, i would tell you first to work in walk on her moving away from your leg, so she really has it in mind that inside leg on means get out by the fence. then i would say keep the trot as slow as possible, so you have as much time as possible to think ahead and keep control.

it is inside aids for falling in, so inside leg (but only useful if she knows it means move over, hence the walk work at the beginning) inside rein to keep correct bend and stop the bananaing and avoid the neck-locking, and stick on shoulder, slapping it on if needed, to keep control there.

i'd also have you working on bend and suppleness, and trying to work out what on earth she is hoping to gain from doing this - is bending the right way uncomfy? are you crooked and making her fall in?

does she do it on both reins?
 
shes worse on the right rein (normally her 'better' side ...). we are working on suppleness at the moment and that seems to be improving. albeit, slowly.

the odd thing is she's fine in walk but if i ask for trot on the long side she springs into banana motion :rolleyes:

so you would ditch the 'weight in the outside stirrup'?

are there any little exercises i can do with her to get her moving off the leg more effectively? were alreadly working hard on transitions (with tap/stick if neccessary ...).

Julia
x
 
It sounds like you are trying to hard. How soon are you 'looking round the corner'? You really only need to start looking as you get to the corner. This serves to turn your body in the direction that you and the horse are going in. If you start 'looking' all down the long side, then your body is directed in that direction asking the horse to go that way, hence your movement to the middle of the school.

Also, you could be using your outside hand too much, so flexing her head to the outside causing her inside shoulder to fall in and make her move to the middle. Try lifting your inside hand slightly whilst making sure your shoulders are back and level. This will stop her going to the middle. Do not flex her head to the inside.

Meanwhile keeps both legs relaxed and 'off', until you fell her start to drift, then apply the inside leg to keep her from going to the middle. If you keep your leg on all down the long side in hope that it will stop her drifting then she will lean on it and come into the middle. Direct pushing movements with your inside leg, only when needed should help.

Hope some of that helps. Had similar problems myself.

Oh, another thing I was doing was slighly dropping my outside shoulder, which caused a lack of support in the outside rein, thus drifting to the middle. At all time look up, sit up straight, and keep your shoulders back!
 
i would think about replacing weight in outside stirrup with inside seatbone on - tense your inside bum cheek and you will feel the seatbone on that side come up and forward.

what happens to me when i think of weight in outside stirrup is that my hips actually slip to the inside - and that encourages the horse to bend to the outside.

also echo bspa's advice - think of doing as little as possible and sitting as straight as possible until there is a problem.

there is a difference between moving off the leg (shapr forward response) and moving away from the leg (sideways). make sure you and she both know the difference when you are asking for one and not the other. voice helps too - 'no' when she bananas, 'over' to ask her over in combination with the inside leg, and 'good girl' when she makes an effort.
 
i *am* trying too hard i think, since it gets a bit frenzied at times :rolleyes: i do have a shoulderdropping habit going i am trying to resolve. i start 'looking round' as we approach the corner, but might be doing it too early (must try harder!).

Thanks for your advice, i shall try again tonight ... first of all i shall approach it in a more relaxed fashion i think! and leave off that inside rein and dont cramp up with the outside one ...

Julia
x
 
no - do keep the inside rein, you need that to maintain the correct bend. if you stop rein contact altogether, you relinquish control over the shoulders, which are the important bit to control. don't actively turn her head, but don't let her turn it out either.
 
quite possibly! remember she doesn't need to go where her head is pointing, but she does need to go where her shoulders are pointing. so it is the shoulders you really need to concentrate on controlling.
 
notpoodle, is angel yours or a school horse ? I might get shot for this ... but in my experience, in english riding schools there is almost too much emphasis on 100% correct riding ... as though if only you would ride perfectly, the horse would go perfectly. This is not so. It ignores all the huge amount of training that goes into a horse from birth to whatever age it is competent to become a lesson horse.

I would like to see what Angel is like with other riders for a start ... then I would work with her on a bunch of exercises that will help her suppleness and 'staying on the track'. These, I would do myself as a supposedly learned rider, and then again with you as the learner rider.

Of course, these might not be in your power to do ... but if you can try these ..

1) Passenger lesson. In an enclosed arena or safe paddock, ask the horse to trot. Lay the reins on her neck and just go ahead in rising trot. Don't tell the horse where to go at all, just go with her movement as smoothly as you can. Correct her only if she falls into walk or starts to canter, otherwise do nothimng. Move about in the saddle. pet her neck and pet her bum. Close your eyes for a while and feel the movement. Do all those arm exercises you've probably done on the lunge - stretch high, stretch out, do the Hokey-Cokey. Work up til you can do this for 20 minutes. Then work up to 20 minutes at a canter. I'm up to 10 minutes trot on my 4 year old and the change in his confidence and relaxation is incredible.

2) Follow the fence. Again in an enclosed arena, ask the horse to trot and this time, don't throw away the reins altogether, but do ride on a loose rein. Correct her when she makes the mistake of coming off the fence. But let her make the mistake first. So trot along on a loose rein, and when she's 4 ft away from the fence, pick up the outside rein and pull her back to fence, then drop it again. So she's learning from the release of that outside rein.
I can't do this one yet, because I don't have a fence ( or an arena ... go figure what we look like doiing the passenger lesson !!!) ... but I do 'follow the edge of the road' with my squirrelly little mare and she's got hugely softer through doign this because it stops you from feeling you have to constantly nag at the horse ... its' the horse's responsibility to maintain a direction until asked otherwise.

In other words, I think this is a training issue rather than simply a riding issue. But then, I believe there is no such divide between 'riding' and 'training' I believe it's the same thing. And my only gripe with the english Riding School system is the myth that if only you would ride perfectly the horse would go perfectly. It's more than that... if only you would ride perfectly and get the right balance of exercises to engage your horse's mind and body and educate and supple him.... then I believe, he will go perfectly.
 
er no shes isnt a school horse, shes my own. shes 14 and was used as a hacking pony most of her life ie not a lot of schooling has gone into her :rolleyes: shes basically had the winter off work due to it being cold and wet. ive been riding for 15 years+ so maybe not a 'learner' as such, im just not very good! she does do this with some other people, but not with others (ie not with people who know what theyre doing!!)

if i let her trot on a loose rein, she'll go where she wants normally! oh and shes a rather opinionated exmoor pony!

Julia
x
 
she tried her hardest to do it with me, but it didn't take her long to work out that it wasn't going ot happen.

it was about this time of year i came and rode her, wasn't it? maybe it is a cheeky-spring thing.
 
Teee Heeee ... I'm still a learner too !!! I love those opinionated mares - so much more thinking to do to get them on the same page. She sounds like fun :) Definitely try the passenger lesson then ... because it will fit right in for you - you'll find yourself fighting her a lot less... you're saying to her, 'ok, sometimes let's have you decide where we go' then when it's your time to decide the direction she's likely to be fighting a lot less for her opinion to be heard .

Hmmm... that sounds like a lot of waffle from me ... think of it this way instead ...try it, it works :) !!

Then the same goes for the 'follow the fence' game ... keep at it 20 minutes, keep letting her make the mistake over and over, keep turning her back to the fence just on one rein, keep releasing the pressure ... after a while, she'll choose to stay on the fence - I've found with the smart and opinionated mares, it really does pay to outsmart them and make your idea their idea. Once they're thinking oh, it's so much easier here by the fence, I'll be lazy and stick by the fence (or in the trailer or whatever it is your training for) then everything else gets easier too because the fight's gone.
 
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