illiegal farrier act by equine podiatrist

Gimp

Gimpy Gimp Gimp
Jan 19, 2005
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This is an interesting story, and quite scary really. Its one of the things that does worry me about these equine podiatrist, thinking they know a little more than qualified experts ( ie vet!) the sentance that worried me the most was that he had managed to 'persuade' the owner it was a good idea to.

http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/News.asp?page=pressreleases&ID=173

You hear so many stories of people botching up their horses feet or glueing things to them when they are not qualified to do so.

I note the horse recouperated with heart bar shoes!

I would like to add I am not anti barefoot ( my horses in the past has used both methods)
 

notpoodle

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Jul 16, 2003
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i use a farrier for mine (both are shoeless!) and im not anti-trimmer at all. in fact the one my friend uses is really good and i'd let him trim my horses any day!

BUT - i do think owners have a responsibility here to eg research who they're letting near the horse and what these people do and why!
 

Flipo's Mum

Heavy owner of a Heavy
Aug 17, 2009
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Interesting reading! I've seen those wrap things advertised around. Nothing to stop people purchasing themselves and using. Scary!
I used a farrier, switched to a barefoot trimmer after issues with my farrier but my horse developed a quarter crack he said was fine however I'm still attending to it 18mths on and it's a state! Also we ended up at the horspital with an imbalance. There were other complications which would have impacted on this, I'm sure it's not solely the trimmers fault but I am more careful now and less trusting. My current farrier must laugh at me when I bombard him with questions. I also photograph before and after each trim to analyse to death....I'm obsessed but with good reason.
 

juliecwuk

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Mar 2, 2006
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i think people who read that article and the one published in the horse and hound have to realise there are two sides to every story and the press release and reports are very biased.

Tom only pleaded guilty because he lacked the funds to fight the case through the courts (would have cost £17000) whereas pleading guilty was only a fine of £1000...in his situation what would you do?

The FRC tried to accuse him of animal cruelty - that was thrown out of court and he was not prosecuted for that.

He was 'found guilty' because he pleaded guilty for the act of 'shoeing' a horse as the FRC claimed that applying wraps constituted shoes....i have actually seen these wraps being used to rehabilitate as friends horse with FANTASTIC results solving a quarter crack which farriers for years couldnt help, within a matter of months the crack had diminished greatly.

I must add that my horses have been trimmed by Tom for years, mine have never had a days lameness from the hoof in all that time....however I am not 'blindly' sticking up for him, if i ever doubted his quality of work i would be the first to change. You have to wonder how many horses are lame from farrier work too but nothing is done about it and no prosecution happens.....i am not trying to start a row/debate.
 
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Yann

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Yep, far more to this one than first appears from that report. A case like this has been on the cards for a while, these wraps can easily be seen as skating close to the wind in terms of the legal definition of a shoe and the FRC wanted to make a point.

The wraps aren't a shoe for practical purposes though, they certainly don't have the same intended purpose and won't last 2 minutes if you try and ride in them. There's only one school of trimming that really advocates them, I'm not convinced they do anything more than boots and pads.
 

Dreamster

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Apr 27, 2011
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I thought it was pretty disgusting that K C was nowhere to be found when this case was brought. As I understand it this trimmer was actually one of his instructors, totally engaged with K C's school of trimming and using the wraps K C designed and had made. So if he didn't believe there was an issue why didn't he back his protege to the hilt?

There are good and bad trimmers and farriers. When the head of an organisation leaves a member high and dry it doesn't bode well.
 

newforest

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Mar 15, 2008
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I think this can happen in any walk of life not just with horses.

There is a clause in the nfu insurance that says a qualified farrier must be trimming or shoeing . I think there is a law coming out about trimmers.

The same could be said for nh instructors, i am not anti on either, but some qualifications they say they have do not mean a thing!

I think word and mouth is useful for people and its our responsibility to check who the person is before you part with your money.
 

Gimp

Gimpy Gimp Gimp
Jan 19, 2005
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So are 'trimmers' actually part of a recognised organisation like the Farriers have to be? I agree there are good and bad in all walks to, however farriers have someone to answer to and be struck off/game over if they step out of line. I cant see that trimmers are held to this. I am sure there are some fab ones out there ( Ive used one or 2 myself) but are they actually regulated?
 

Wally

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Apr 16, 2000
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If some trimmers carry on the way they are, and these "trimming coffee mornings" carry on leading to folk setting themselves up as "trimmers" soon the WCF and the FRC are going to push legislation through that prevents anyone but a farrier on the FRC list from touching a horse's foot with a rasp.

It will be a verysad day as there are a lot of pony breeders who keep their animals feet in good tidy sound order. If the shenanigans of the few spoil it for the sensible horse onwer it will be a very sad day indeed.
 

Rubic

Equine Karaoke Queen
Apr 15, 2012
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If some trimmers carry on the way they are, and these "trimming coffee mornings" carry on leading to folk setting themselves up as "trimmers" soon the WCF and the FRC are going to push legislation through that prevents anyone but a farrier on the FRC list from touching a horse's foot with a rasp.

It will be a verysad day as there are a lot of pony breeders who keep their animals feet in good tidy sound order. If the shenanigans of the few spoil it for the sensible horse onwer it will be a very sad day indeed.

Possibly stupid question but if there were to happen what do you think would happen if your horses shoe was so loose you had to pull it for the horses safety? Do you think that would be allowed or would be a case of you having to call the farrier?! Most of the ones round here are so difficult to get a hold of, you could be waiting days!
 

newforest

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Mar 15, 2008
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You are allowed to remove a shoe, you are not allowed to shoe the horse in the first place.

I was going to go on trimming course, but my trimmer and farrier said don't bother because if the changes happen i will have wasted £6000! Perhaps i am lucky in that i have a farrier who them went on to train in trimming.

Currently due to my location i trim in between visits and that is allowed but i DO NOT and WOULD NOT touch anyone else's horse.
 

juliecwuk

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Mar 2, 2006
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I would be fully in support of regulatory changes but i really really hope that the changes are done to get trimmers to register/be assessed like with something like the FRC, rather than to stop them all together. Because I would NOT ever use any of the farriers in my area. They do not trim well at all (just cut off excess toe, no rasping, no balancing) also they don't see a problem with leaving a horse 6-12 months between trims! It's ridiculous.

I partly hope that there wouldnt be a change to you trimming your own horses hooves - but then that worries me greatly, plenty of un-trained people trimming their own horses hooves....surely worse than trained trimmers not under regulatory measures (ie how it is now).....i would feel absolutely confident trimming my own horses hooves to be honest, i have been watching for 7 years, and have tidied up in between trims when its been neccessary due to excessive quick growth etc....and people who have been trimming their own horses hooves for years to a high standard - would be very irritating if they were stopped too. But i would worry that people who are not knowledgable would cause horrendous issues thinking they knew what they were doing - cringe
 
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Joyscarer

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Dec 30, 2006
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I personally think that regulating those able to trim may be desirable. It concerns me that trimmers offer a short course and then owners feel able to tackle their horses feet themselves.

It's not just about the trim. A hoofcare professional can spot the early warning signs of a whole host of issues.
 
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Yann

Guest
To have any meaning, regulation must have teeth. It's very clear from recent events (and many owner's direct experiences of poor quality work and abysmal levels of customer service from some registered farriers) that it does not.

There are a lot of horse owners who keep their horses in sound and tidy order too, in some cases much tidier and sounder than the local farrier, and some of them might even have gone on weekend courses.

I don't think there are currently any moves afoot to ban anything and it's unlikely there will be.
 
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Gimp

Gimpy Gimp Gimp
Jan 19, 2005
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Yes, indeed.. however though if a farrier messes up - big style a customer can report him to the powers above, and he will perhaps be banned for x number of months in order to clean his act up - or even a banning for life and struck of the register.

What happens to a trimmer who buggers up?! I would say it certainly needs some regulations put in. Where on earth would you start though!

People dont seem to have any protection from ringing someone up who has been on a ( as wally put it!) 'coffee morning' training course the weekend before and is then let loose on your horses feet.

As I said before there are good and bad farriers as there are trimmers.
 
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Yann

Guest
I get the impression it is professionals that the FRC are really interested in, rather than individual owners. That said I personally didn't take any chances when I tried glue on shells out last year and I had them fitted by a farrier.
 

RSMC

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Jul 19, 2012
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Only reason I am asking is that my horse went lame during the freezing hard weather with abcesses because of the rough ground. I didnt want shoes on so I made wraps for the feet with nappies and gaffa tape to allow him out. If it were to happen again I am aware of wraps you can buy on the net to help with this and was tempted if it happened again.

I dont want to shoe as horse is only ridden twice a week :smile:
 

Wally

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Apr 16, 2000
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The word on the street is, that anything you put on a horses foot to protect it will be classed as farriery if you need a "tool" to remove it.

So buckles and velcro or other fastners will be fine, anything that nees a buffer or (heaven forfend) a chisel and hammer etc to remove it will be classed as an act of farriery.

Anyone can take a shoe off in emergencies, anyone can put a dressing on a foot that is held on with tape.
 
Y

Yann

Guest
Agree, something flexible held on with tape isn't going to class as a 'shoe'. The problem with all this is that product development has overtaken the law. It's a great shame that KC LaPierre didn't back his practitioner in court and allow the definition to be properly tested, I don't think we can automatically assume that the judge would have found in the FRC's favour. Whilst the wrap is solid, is intended to stay on the foot for weeks at a time and needs to be cut off (if it doesn't fall off in the meantime) that's about it. They're intended to be entirely therapeutic and you'd quickly destroy them if you went for a hack on a road.

It's still a grey area with that definition though - is someone guilty of illegal farriery if they have to prise their easyboot gloves off with a screwdriver?
 
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