Hi Viz, Hard Hats and the Law

[flinglebunt]

What are your opinions on Hi Viz and hard hats being made a legal requirement when riding on the road? Do you think it is high time the equestrian world should be forced to move into the twenty first century and come into line with health and safety standards that seem to encompass just about every aspect of our working and leisure time?

Given that such a law could only save riders from injury or worse what would your objections be?

 

[Rhein]

What are your opinions on Hi Viz and hard hats being made a legal requirement when riding on the road?

Completely in favour. I see it no differently to seatbelt laws and other rules of the road that are designed to reduce accident and injury

 

[posie]

yup - agree whole heartedly

 

[Skippys Mum]

I dont see why not. At the end of the day, you have to remember to put your seatbelt on if you are driving. You would soon learn to remember your bib too.

As for cyclists and dog walkers, while I do think they should be visible too, half a ton of horse can do so much more damage to all concerned so its far more vital. If someone falls off a bike the bike just lies there - if they fall off a horse because it spooked because a driver didnt see it the horse can then go on to cause real carnage, both to itself and to others.

But then, I always wear high vis and a hat hacking so I'm already one of the converts

 

[Elly Koopman]

I'm sorry, I don't think it should be law - certainly not the hi-vis

Apart from anything else, who's going to enforce it?

It's not law for cyclists etc., so until that happens there is not point making it a law for riders.

In reality, how many road accidents between horses and vehicles could have actually been prevented due to high visibility clothing? How many of the accidents have been caused by excess speed and lack of knowledge of country roads, and also lack of common sense on the riders part. Many a time I have been coming round a corner at 20 miles/hour on a country lane to find 3 riders mooching along in the middle of the road - hi-vis wouldn't have helped.

However the hat issue should maybe enforced through insurance companies not paying out if it found that you weren't wearing suitably safe hat...

 

[Daffy Dilly]

I have always kitted myself and Daffy out in hi viz. The day we got seperated and he bolted across a busy national speed limit road, I was told by a driver (I stopped to check Daffy had gone the way I thought he had) that had Daffy not had his hi viz on, the driver wouldn't have seen him and stopped in time.

I used to ride on isolated, open moorland, and if I'd fallen off and broken a leg or something, my hi viz would've helped an air ambulance find me. It's common sense really.

I think it would be wise to make it compulsary - even if it's as simple as insurance companies refusing to pay out in the event of an accident. A hat band on the rider's hat and a bridle kit on the horse is an easy bare minimum, which doesn't require any thought at all as it stays on the kit.

 

[Rhein]

Also, you could argue that if it is made law for horses then surely they should really do it for cyclists too

Totally agree

It's not law for cyclists etc., so until that happens there is not point making it a law for riders.

. Why is there no point in making it law for riders whilst there is no law for cyclists? What is the relationship between the two?

 

[Elly Koopman]

Totally agree


. Why is there no point in making it law for riders whilst there is no law for cyclists? What is the relationship between the two?

For the same reason you agreed with alliersv quote - you can't have one law for one person and not another. There are just as many accidents with cyclists that could've been put down to lack of safety equipment as there has been with horses. Both use the roads, both should have the same rules

 

[Dooley]

For the same reason you agreed with alliersv quote - you can't have one law for one person and not another. There are just as many accidents with cyclists that could've been put down to lack of safety equipment as there has been with horses. Both use the roads, both should have the same rules

But motorcyclists have to wear helmets by law so why not say horse riders should be treated like THEM rather than like pushbike-type cyclists?

I don't understand why some people have problems with hi-viz. It's not restrictive, it's just as easy to remember as your bridle or saddle if you keep it all together, it helps you to be seen from a much greater distance... why NOT wear it?
Although I agree that there are probably more accidents caused by "ignorance" (not meant pejoratively!) in drivers than by th elack of hi-viz, I would still like to be able to see a horse and rider on the road from further away so that I can take the appropriate action sooner as a driver!

 

[Rhein]

For the same reason you agreed with alliersv quote - you can't have one law for one person and not another

Of course you can - because they are participating in different activities. Just like motorcyclists, hgv drivers, taxi drivers, towing vehicles etc etc come under slightly different legislation on the road.

 

[Elly Koopman]

I don't have a problem with Hi-Viz at all and will wear it if I deem it necessary, but I like to think that I am capable of making a suitable decision without having to be told to do something. I also have and will continue to accept responsibility for something that arises out of my decision. If I make myself a vegetable because I wasn't wearing my hat they I will accept that I made a mistake.

What I am trying to say is that there are laws already in place to help prevent damage to all road users and these laws are not being kept to (like the 30mph zone outside of our yard that no-one adheres to, whether we wear hi-viz or not) and by all means campaign to make riders more aware of the benefits of hi-viz, but please not in the form of another law...

 

[Kady A]

Hats should definitely be compulsory. I had a riding accident on the road some years ago and fractured my skull - it would have been a lot worse if I hadn't been wearing a hat. Last year I got chucked onto the road by my friend's horse in Greece - landing head first - but I had taken my hat to Corfu with me and once again it probably saved the day.

Anyone who doesn't wear a suitable standard riding hat when mounted (AT ALL TIMES!) is totally irresponsible (in my opinion).

High viz is compulsory on our yard - if your are caught leaving the yard without it YO's mum will have your guts for garters!

I personally think that by wearing high viz when out on the roads/bridleways etc you are making yourself less vulnerable to criticism from other road users (cars/motorbikes and cyclists) and god forbid if you were in an accident and said motorist said that he couldn't see you, its got to be more favourable if you are wearing high viz.

High viz has no need to be restrictive and a riding hat certainly shouldn't be if its fitted properly. In some respects I think we as riders should take more reponsibility to make ourselves more visible on the roads and to protect ourselves and our horses and also to show that we are far more courteous to other road users than motorcylists and push bikers (both of which I have a fairly low opinion of).

I don't think we can compare ourselves with pushbikers at all - our horses can be unpredictable - a pushbike doesn't spook

 

[Howengold]

doesn't bother me one way or the other, as someone who has a rule for her riders to wear hi-viz every time they leave the yard anyway it wouldn't make a difference to us.

 

[Wally]

Thin end of the wedge.

How about making car drivers more accountable?

You have an absolute right in law to use the road, car drivers and motor vehicles do not. It's another errosion of civil liberties. Soon we won't be able to walk on the road without legislation.

Just be careful for what you lot campaign for, this government has already ridden rough shod over many MANY civil liberties. Don't hold your hand out for more for goodness sake.


How would you legislate for all the ponies running on common land with roads runing through them??

let insurance companies put their own provisos in place, but leave grown ups to make their own judgment. Leave governments out of private lives.

 

[Elly Koopman]

Of course you can - because they are participating in different activities. Just like motorcyclists, hgv drivers, taxi drivers, towing vehicles etc etc come under slightly different legislation on the road.

I was trying to say that you agreed with alliersv qoute, but not mine when I said the same thing but worded it differently.

And yes they do come under slightly different legislation, but the principles are the same - roadworthy and safe vehicles/methods of transport all adhering to the same road rules such as speed and signs etc. But there is no law that states they have to wear helmets and hi-viz and I was trying to say maybe there should be if we were to go down the route of making it law for riders. We're all on the roads, and while variations need to exist because of the different types of traffic, the principles should be the same...

 

[Rhein]

but I like to think that I am capable of making a suitable decision without having to be told to do something. I also have and will continue to accept responsibility for something that arises out of my decision. If I make myself a vegetable because I wasn't wearing my hat they I will accept that I made a mistake.

Sadly you will not be in a position to think about and accept you made a mistake. And you will also be unable to accept responsibilty. That will fall to a multitude of other people

What I am trying to say is that there are laws already in place to help prevent damage to all road users and these laws are not being kept to (like the 30mph zone outside of our yard that no-one adheres to, whether we wear hi-viz or not) [/QUOTE]
It's true that there will always be people who flout the law. But the majority do comply with the laws of the road. Just because some people choose to break the law doesn't mean the law should be overturned. A very small percentage of people wore seatbelts prior to it being law. And the exact same arguments that you are stating now were quoted then. But after it became law, the majority of people did (and do) comply. Mortality and morbidity on the roads decreased dramatically.

 

[Rhein]

I was trying to say that you agreed with alliersv qoute, but not mine when I said the same thing but worded it differently.

Nope. I agreed that I would like to see it become law for cyclist to wear helmets. But I certainly wouldn't want to see legislation for riders held up because of it.

 

[Rhein]

but leave grown ups to make their own judgment.

Heavens we'd have drink drivers mowing down innocent pedestrians and other road users on a daily basis if we did.
Sadly most adults seem unable to make sensible judgements for themselves, or they simply have no thought for anyone else but themselves. Hence for some things, legalisation is required.

 

[flinglebunt]

For the same reason you agreed with alliersv quote - you can't have one law for one person and not another. There are just as many accidents with cyclists that could've been put down to lack of safety equipment as there has been with horses. Both use the roads, both should have the same rules

My original question was asked within the context of horseback riding but I agree that the same rules should apply to cyclists. On my way home from work in the early mornings I see many cyclists ... the sensible ones with hi viz and lit up like a christmas tree and the daft ones who wear a black jacket in poor conditions.

I do not beleive hard hats should ever be a matter of choice whether on wheels or four legs. That easily avoidable skull fracture that resulted from a relatively minor accident can wreck lives and divert hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of resources that could otherwise be put to good use elsewhere.

In the area I live I have noticed that an increasing number of motorists are using dipped headlights in sunny daytime conditions in country lanes. This may be compulsary soon anyway as EU laws are going through to bring all EU countries into line on this issue.

Keeping in mind the young kids we see riding in and out of the shadows on a sunny day would those here that would oppose horse riders being singled out for special treatment support a law that included cyclists?

 

[Rhein]

It's another errosion of civil liberties.

It's not an erosion of civil liverties. It's about learning from mistakes and about the advancement and availability of safety equipment. Not everyone has the misfortune to experience the devastation serious accidents have on many lives. I am baffled as to why preventing these incidents can possibly be argued against