Devil's Claw - any long term side-effects?

Sooty

Sooty

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Oct 1, 2002
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Hi folks
My mare has some stiffness in her stifle which I have found to be significantly eased by feeding Devil's Claw. However, I don't know whether it is safe to feed long-term. Does anyone know?
 
I'm sitting here racking my brains as I either heard or read something recently which said that Devil's Claw has recently been proved to be addictive....

...... or did I dream it????? :rolleyes:
 
There was a thread on that a while back. My opinion is that if it works, why change it? It has less side effects than bute and is a whole lot better than the pain which is probably the alternative. Noone can say in the long term there definitely won't be any side effects at all, but what can you do if there are? There's not many other alternatives and you'd be none the wiser with any of those either!
 
ive heard negative things about devils claw too ......... but for the life of me i cant remember what i read and where i read it ............. grrrrrrr dont you sooooo hate it when you forget to bookmark stuff?

eta: i wouldnt touch bute with a barge pole TBH, far too many side effects. and if youve an arthritic horse its not advisable cos it can contribute to leaky gut syndrome which can affect the joints and worsen the arthritis. dont know about danilon tho, newish bute-type drug. havent used it tho.
 
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I'm sitting here racking my brains as I either heard or read something recently which said that Devil's Claw has recently been proved to be addictive....

...... or did I dream it?????
Click to expand...
No, you didn't dream it domane!!

I was told by a leading supplement company's rep that devils claw is addictive (the supplement company was developed and is owned by a vet and he won't supply any form of devils claw).

S
 
i've been using Bute-Less (which contains devils claw) for 13 months now and am impressed with the results. it has stopped my mare going totally lame when she picks up a stone bruise from the field. I'd rather give her a dose of Bute-Less than keep having to get more regular bute off the vet.

Yes, bute and devils claw have side effects, but so does having your horses vaccinated, overdosing them on mineral supplements, feeding animal based supplements/feeds...... the list is endless. you have to decide if the benifits outweigh the risks. I'm much happier knowing my pony is sound and NOT in pain (and *touch wood* has suffered no side effects from bute or devils claw) than leaving her as she was. she is regularly checked by the vet to make sure we don't have any delayed effects from 5 years on and off huge amounts of meds. she's 100% happy, healthy and fit.
 
of course everything has side effects - my point, (well, ponyvet's point via me) is that we know about the side effects of bute - it's been rigorously tested and we know all about it. we don't know about devil's claw, and people (not you specifically, EB) often use it with gay abandon thinking 'it's natural, it must be safe' when in fact it can be a powerful painkiller comparable in strength to bute, and we have no idea what effects ther will be in ten years' time from it.
 
totally agree with you mehitabel, you only need to look at alternative therapies for humans to see that some of these natural remedies are suspicious (a well known chain gave my mum a noxious mushroom tea that almost had her in hospital). You just need to be cautious with any supplement (even regular vit&min supplements) and if possible consult with your vet :)
 
interesting point-was watching a bbc2 program on alternative therapies last night-devils claw was one of only a handful of herbal remedies that has passed clinical trails on humans - it's been proven to work on humans. no mention of any side effects was made.
my horse is 27 and he's been on Nafs devils relief for about 2 years, its done his general stiffness the world of good. he's as fit and healthy as ever, though obviously i've not had his liver tested. it would be interesting to do so maybe.
 
i think once you are dealing with very elderly horses, then you need ottake their comfort into consideration - the likelihood is, at 27 years old, that he will go peacefully of old age before any liver problems show up. at that age then bute, devils claw - whatever keeps them comfortable.

but i have heard of plenty of people who use devils claw on younger horses, nd use it to keep them sound enough to work hard, without even considering what they are doing. they wouldn't dream of working theihorse on long-term bute, they'd consider it masking the pain and so on - but they are perfectly happy to give DC, not thinking that it is doing exactly the same thing and in a potentially more dangerous way.

long-term use of anything that is strong enough o have an effect, will potentially have side effects. for me, (cost issues aside, lets pretend bute and DC are the same price) i'd rather it was a clinically tested and well-known drug than something provided by a feed company where i have no idea of possible side effects, of comparable strength, of how it was produced, etc etc.
 
I'd be interested to see the research on the liver toxicity - can't find anything on the internet for actual evidence either way.

Presumably this means that every company selling devils claw supplements as having none of the side effects of long term bute use should be done under trade descriptions or something. Or is there other research that backs up their claims?

At the end of the day it's personal choice. Unless you get a massive highly controlled scientific study carried out by totally impartial people, you'll never have a definite answer as to which is the most toxic. And even then, it's never going to be a definite answer :rolleyes: The joys of science!

I have to admit that I am more inclined towards herbal remedies as a result of working in drug research :eek: Not everyone appreciates what they're using though and there is less regulation which is certainly not a good thing.
 
they are only just starting to do clinicla trails of herbal remedies on humans, i don't think there is any similar research on animals- i give one of my horses a glucosamine-chondroitin supplement and we don't even know yet if the horses gut absorbs the stuff (no research), you just do the best you can, if i see an improvement i'll carry on, if not i'll stop.its hit and miss with these things which is why boards like these can be so useful we can pool our experiences of these supplements and compare results.
mehitabel i see your point, it had never crossed my mind that DC would be used like that-not good.
 
Very interesting perspectives - that's why I love you lot on NR so much :D

I had no intention of using the DC to simply mask the pain/symptoms (not that I'm suggesting anyone was inferring it, just following on from Mehitabel's point), I just intended to use it to make her more comfortable. I have started her on a joint supplement and am hoping that this will help and will soon start to reduce the dosage of DC and see whether I can gradually take her off (by weaning gradually will also deal with the possible addictive nature mentioned by SarahC). She has been thoroughly checked out and it seems to be something that needs to be managed by strenghtening the surrounding muscle and supporting the joint.

Hopefully I can get her off it before any possible long term effects come into play.

thanks again
 
Devils claw, herbs and other stuff!

Hi

Devils claw should not be fed to pregnant mares or horses with possible gastric ulceration, it can be hard on the stomach and so there are other herbs that are soothing that can be offered with it such as marshmellow. As it is also hard on the liver it is useful to also offer milk thistle and or dandelion. An alternative herb to bute that is more gentle on the stomach is Boswellia Serrata (Frankincense), white willow is also a anti inflammatory and pain killer.

I prefer to use the dried herbs (you can buy devils claw slices) and offer each individually to the horse for self selection. You will find the horse will take what it needs and no more, some days a horse may take one slice other days 4 but this way the horse is taking only what the body requires. Same with the other herbs.

If your horse is taking bute (or any NSAID) as well ensure that you only offer a minimal amount, herbs are very powerful and should not be used to double up with allopathic medicine but to compliment it if used. Be aware of any contra indication of any natural medicine you use to ensure you are using it safely.

There are a number of other natural therapies you can use, cider viniger is not only good for arithritis but a good tonic etc (although do not use if a bone is fuseing), Essential oils used appropriately are great consider yarrow (anti inflammatory), wintergreen (pain killer) peppermint (painkiller and good for circulation just to name a couple.

Bodywork may also be worth considering such as shiatsu, equine touch or myofascial release.

I hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Nicola
 
Our vets told us we may as well use real bute as they are all bad for the liver, one of our mares was on devils claw and the like rather than bute for a period of time and ended up with gastric ulcers, she was really poorly so I certainly wouldn't feed it.
 
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