Buying a youngster only to ruin it...

OwnedbyChanter

OwnedbyChanter

With out my boys life would be bland
Apr 16, 2009
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Raininghamshire
OK I am very bored in work today so thought I would put this out there. Before I do please note that this is not aimed at anyone on NR it is just something I have feelings about and would like to know yours.

I know of a couple of people that could not find a horse suitable for them so they brought a 2-3 year old to bring on themselves so that they would not be ‘ruined’.

This brings me to a couple of things:

If so many people have brought youngsters and not ruined them, why are there so many ‘ruined’ horses out there?

What makes people who are struggling to find a suitable riding horse with no issues capable of bring on/backing a youngster and not ruining it themselves.

I have seen two people at my yard buy a youngster for the first reason only for one to be sold on at the age of 6 as the owner could not handler the rearing and bucking (oh and yes this one was professional backed using NR methods the owner was a very competent hose owner but lacked the riding skills) The second has now sadly been PTS again backed and but owner was scared to ride and handle it as it reared.

Yes these are only two examples but both people wanted untouched horse that they could bond with and learn together. Both ended in sadness for both the owner and the horse.

Is a horse classed as ruin/naughty etc if it naps, does not stand at the block, bucks, spooks, is strong and a what point do we as owners admit that we are not as skilled as we thought and is there such a thing as the perfect horse as surely this is just a shell with every ounce of individuality removed.
 
I personally wouldn't attempt to bring on a youngster, as I don't feel I have the necessary skills (yet). Maybe after I have a few more years experience under my belt, and with the time, money other required resources.................maybe.
I love reading about people's journeys with bringing horses on, there are a few here on NR, it makes interesting reading! However, I consider these people to be more than capable - but I know what you mean about people not being suitable for this.
I guess the idea of a blank canvas is appealing to some people? But then again, even a blank canvas can become flawed - at times even just accidentally. I have read time and time again it is vital that horses are handled consistently and correctly and that their training should be such. I guess what I'm thinking is that the whole process needs to be done by knowledgeable people - and not just people who want to create their perfect riding horse.
Guess it is okay learning together up to a point, but when it can become unsafe...........
 
I would never previously have bought a youngster, but I've backed rascal and he is becoming a lovely little kids pony - and silver - enough said! I am not knowledgable about backing etc, but I know I would let the pony have as long as it needed at each stage, going backwards a few steps in preference to risking moving forwards too fast, well fitting tack and the openness that the horse may not enjoy the type of work it is presented with (ie rascal doesn't enjoy long linug like he enjoys lead rein work)... And being able to ask for help when needed.

With that basis I would take on a youngster - I would make mistakes but we would learn - no one is perfect.

Sadly there are too many idiots who think they know best out there and it is scary to see/watch. And they are how the horses get ruined.

As for being perfect - silver is perfect in my eyes - no different to a husband or wife IMHO.
 
I know someone who had a horse she could not manage. He was quite expensive initially but had to be sold as a project. I think some self-reflection might have suggested that if you can't straighten out training issues with one horse, why should you imagine you are equipped to train another? However the blame for the horses problems was laid at the door of the horse. And because they lost so much money they decide to buy an unbacked youngster who would not be 'ruined' yet.

I think the attitude you bring to a youngster is more important that experience: a willingness to accept you don't have all the answers, a willingness to ask for help and a willingness to accept at least SOME responsibility for how your horse behaves.

If that's missing then you will probably have another 'problem' horse....
 
Before buying Hens I was looking at getting a young New Forest to back myself and bring on. Instead I bought Henry as a five year old ex-racehorse and it’s only now, three years later that we are progressing, I certainly wouldn’t go about things the same way again and the teenage phase as a 6yo was utter hell! It’s going to be a few years before I’m in the position for another horse but I wouldn’t rule out a youngster, I’m also of the feeling that I wouldn’t pass on my problems so the only time I would sell a horse was if they were a useful member of society.
 
I think sometimes if you've had issues with your existing horse and sorted them out, you automatically think you would be capable of bringing on a youngster.
The trouble is, no two horses are the same so you will come across very different issues with the next one - personalities vary so much and people end up out of their depth so easily.
I've had my boy two and a half years now. Prior to that I owned ponies for around ten years. I've read about it, but I never really truly acknowledged that I'm not consistent enough or disciplined enough to bring on a youngster until i've thought about it over the last four or five months. I think the only folk who are truly capable of that, are those that can detach emotionally from the horse.
 
We get a lot of young horses sent to us at work because they have novice owners who thought they were more capable then they are and tried to back the horse themselves and failed. When they are 4 or 5 its not to hard to reback and school it out of them, but its a lot harder to reschool a 10yo that has been let away with murder its whole life. I think a lot of people who don't have the experience want to back their own youbgsters because they want to be the first ones to sit on it! A good backing is a solid life foundation, not something that should be scrimped on due to sentimentality IMO. Though to be fair backing isnt the hard bit, youngsters are usually good thr first couple times you try and teach them something new. It's when they know what's what and think they know better than you that's when you get problems! So the actual bringing on the first few months is the hardest bit.
 
Flipo's Mum said:
I think the only folk who are truly capable of that, are those that can detach emotionally from the horse.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know what you mean by emotional detachment? If you mean the ability to be objective then I would apply that to all handling not just bringing on a youngster! On the other hand I generally think lots of people are TOO emotionally detached in that they seem to see the horse as a sort of faulty car that won't do things properly rather than as an intelligent, communicating, sensitive, social animal with a clear opinion on things.
 
Haha, you could be talking about me, OwnedByC. :)

I bought my first horse DJ after he retired from the racetrack. He's a lovely boy but being shod so young his feet are not the best, he cribs. But otherwise he really is a lovely boy. He's been so good to me.

Then we bought Bixby on advice of my RI/Livery YO. Bixby has had a rough life. She was 12 when we bought her and had 10 different owners on her papers at that time. Her owners were too scared to ride her (should have given us a clue but we listened to the RI at that time). Owning Bixby was scary at times but I learned so much from her and gained confidence with her.

Owning DJ was a joy because he gave me confidence and trust in him. Owning Bixby was the perfect step up because it gave me confidence and trust in myself.
But even after years of owning Bixby things would come up out of the blue (like deciding to use a breast strap to stabilize a saddle on her and her going nuts because it gave her 'flashbacks' to a harsher piece of equipment used during her barrel racing days - it had broken her nose)

And so when a local PMU rescue had surplus foals for adoption I decided to buy a yearling.
I wanted the foal to really mature to about age 4 anyway and that gave me a few years to perfect my skills.
When it came time to gently back her I hired a trainer to come to our place and work with her. That worked really well. By that time Minnie had already grown into a fabulous little mare. I couldn't be more thrilled with her. She leads (with or without head collar) better than any of the other horses, she's smart as a whip and very affectionate. I just love her to bits.
Of course I worried about 'messing her up' and recently a stint at a trainer's barn didn't go so well (that much for 'professionals' doing a better job... :( ) but she trusts me and we have a really excellent bond. I was able to work through the issues the professional had created with no problems on my own (so far... probably jinxing myself now lol)

I think there are a few factors contributing to Minnie turning out so well and here they are:

1) she's a super horse. seriously the smartest horse I have ever met with a wonderful inquisitive personality

2) our personalities match. I have a very calming effect on horses. Before I owned horses I rode at a RS and Dexter a horse there always was super boring to ride for me but put another rider in tears due to his rearing and bolting. He always halfway fell asleep with me. I am just a bit of a sedative to nervous horses. Minnie grew up unhandled on the Canadian range so it was more like taming a wild mustang.
I think an overconfident bolshy well handled youngster would have been a less suitable match for me. I am just better at calming the nervous ones than keeping the really bolshy ones in line

3) When I needed professional help I got it. Just this year I have improved my riding so much in preparation for riding Minnie. I found the right RI and have worked my butt off but it's paying off.

4) I keep my horses at home so I truly have influence on everything that happens to them and they all do have a pretty good bond with me. Even if we do nothing I just enjoy being with them and vice versa. Example: we are building a fence right now and the horses will come and stand next to me -just to be there. Then when the post is in the will follow to the next post hole. I love that 'just being together'. That they seek me out even when there's nothing to be gained other than my company (and a few scratches)

I was nervous along the way and sometimes I did think I made a irresponsible decision buying a youngster. But I look at her now and I can truly say: I consider her my once-in-a-lifetime horse. She has exceeded all my expectations. She is absolutely a joy to have.
 
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Yeah you're right Thyme&me, I wasn't intentionally meaning that this didn't apply to dealing with horses in general.
Just that I was basing my personal opinion on the fact that I'm crap at being objective and emotionally detached from my mature (but still green) horse - so if I only just cope with an older horse, I know I'd be completely out of my depth with a youngster.
 
I wouldn't buy a 2-3 yr old...I'm too impatient to wait! I think though a 4-5 yr old who is backed and riding away is perfect. I think at this age you know more about their personality and how they will be when finished. As Sunshine-x says, it is easier enough to re-back a 5 yr old than a 10 yr old!

Saying that though you need to be experienced or have someone on hand to assist every step of the way and of course the time to consistently work them.
 
Personally I think there's a difference between preparing for backing/backing and then bringing on.

I was chatting to my yard mate the other day and I was saying that if my life was such that I consistently had the time (consistently being the key word there) then I'd love to have a youngster and get them ready to be backed and then to actually back them and turn them away.

What I personally could never do is to then bring them on and school them. I simply don't have the ability to produce a horse.

She was the opposite. She would bring them on and school them but she would never dream of backing them herself.
 
Jack was my first youngster having never started a pony before. I had no experience whatever and i struggled enough to lunge a horse that knew the ropes!

The difference between myself perhaps and others is i bought it, so i sort it. When it went wrong and trust me it did big time i stayed the course. It was me who created most of the problems!

So i got lessons, i learnt from my mistakes, i invested in a body protector and i rode him myself. I didn't pass on a "ruined" pony. The best way to learn is to clean up your own mess.

Going back to op, not all ruined horses are this way because of handling as youngster, anyone can ruin a horse. The amount of people who buy totally unsuitable horses are the first ones, who then sell on and don't stay the course.
 
I have been dreaming about buying and bringing on a youngster. I think I probably could do the groundwork and up to backing, but watching Suzi schooling Tommy the other day really pointed up to me how inadequate I would be for the bringing on period. My riding is just not good enough and more than anything not consistent enough to help a young horse learn.

Maybe in a year or two... :cloud9:
 
I bought my youngster with 25 years of experience under my belt (although not experienced in starting youngsters!) and had a lot of help and advice from friend/RI. I certainly would not have attempted the venture without help and guidance.

i know what you mean though ... I've seen too many ignorant people get youngsters and ruin them very early on, sometimes just by the way they handle them on the ground eg.

pony plants.
they handfeed it carrots. they try to drag pony pony moves off. they are then slapping it with the leadrope. what has pony learnt? plant and you get a carrot! walk on and they'll slap you! :cold: GREAT ... not.

then there's people who get these 'bomproof 3/4 year old cobs' .... who promptly go through 'cob rage' at 5/6 and duly get sold/ruined ...

it's a jungle out there!!!

no wonder there's so many horses who dont even know the 'basics', are a nightmare to hack, refuse to go out alone ... half of it, i dare say, has probably been cooked up by the wrong owner at the wrong time ....
 
I've just bought a youngster due to having so many problems with my tb.
I don't pretend to know everything but I've helped with youngsters including backing but I plan on getting him professionally backed when the time comes- he's got his own little money bank that I put money in each week haha!

I will say though, I've come on a lot further with him than I did with my tb.
I know if I need a hand there is experienced people at the yard, including a riding instructor!
 
Im a crap rider- basically I dont any more, Im a competant driver. My skill I believe is 0-3/4 I enjoy the firsts. I enjoy getting them ready to back. Head collar, feet, leading, fiwld manners, bitting, bombproofing, trusting, wearing tack, long reining, rug wearing, grooming, touching, standing.........Then Im ready to see my babies fly. I enjoy driving , but I dont enjoy the greeness, or the kevin stages. To work I like em older. When I sold Questy his new owner comented that he did exactly what I said on the tin label.
 
notpoodle said:
the 'backing' is the easy part, it's the bringing on that's the tricky bit :)
Click to expand...

Ive brought on a horse before....I have fond memories of been tanked off with through a market place because one of the stalls started flapping :)

Got another year before I need to worry haha :)
 
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