Biting - Seemingly for no reason.

Jay.o

Jay.o

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Aug 15, 2002
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I have always believed that a horse wont kick/bite/buck/whatever, for no reason - theres always a reason. Be it pain or fear.

Well, for the past few days or so, Mysy has started biting. I am not talking nipping (for treats) actually biting. I dont feed her by hand and neither does anyone else (that I know of). She doesnt search your pockets or anything either.

Its been when I have lead her down to the yard. She usually will try and take a chunk of tree or cowslips to eat with her. I usually carry on walking and pull her head away. She will then catch up and seem to walk on nicely, then, all of a sudden, she'll go for you! She'll snap with her ears back and then miss (everytime she will miss :rolleyes: ) and pull her head away quickly.

She has no tack on so no girth or saddle problems there. She doesnt have a bridle on so nee teeth problems. I have tried long and short rein whilst leading. Once she has done it one shes usually fine. It has only recently started and i have no clue as to why - I havent done anything differently. And the other weird thing is, she doesnt do it all the time either - so confusing.

And another thin (sorry), shes been getting incredibly itchy legs too. Theres no lice or irritation there. She usually does it when ties up and cant quite reach so I get the brush or my hand to do it for her, she'll bend down and bite then too - why? I thought I was doing her a favour as when I leave it she gets into a right state!

Ok, number three - when brushing her shoulder, she'll usually turn round to see. She sometimes nuzzles or mouths my shoulder/arm - is she trying to grrom me back (becuase I am to her) or being rude/nasty??

Thanks in advance.
 
that sounds terrifying! unfortunately, i can't think of any useful advice either. but, is she in season by any chance? some mares do strange things when they're in season.

as for the nuzzling ... does she rub her head on you? if so, that's not so good, because it means she's trying to dominate you/does not accept you as someone above her in the 'foodchain'.

julia
x
 
Oooh, Jay.o, sounds like she's testing the dominance waters. Reasoning: She's upset at you, she doesn't want you to tell her what to do, maybe if she intimidates you you'll go away.

It could be something fungal on her legs, that's itchy but is also painful. So when you brush it it hurts. Or even dried sweat. Did she start with the legs *before* she started while you were leading? It could be that she figured out that she could change your behavior when biting related to the legs, then decided to pull the same thing when she is being led.

To work on this, you may want to stop brushing/scratching her legs, but use an antifungal or antiseptic wash to try to get whatever's itching her. Just hose/sponge it, without pressing hard. If no change, then she may just be trying it on.

Turning around and nuzzling you shouldn't be allowed unless you invite it, as it's another dominance move. She should only be allowed into your space when you invite her. This is probably the simplest of your three issues; just put your hand on the large flat area of her jaw, and push her head gently away.

For the biting while leading, Cherry Hill has some good recommendations:
http://www.horsekeeping.com/Horse_Newsletter/October_2000.htm#biting
http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_behavior/biting.htm

Jay.o, I think your baby is growing up!
 
@ galadriel: i just read your notes on biting - very interesting! but i think i'd be worried i'd get bitten again when trying the 'firm massaging of the upper lip' thing. is there any particular way of doing this?

julia
x
 
notpoodle, yes hse is in season. Its started since she came in season (again) about 2 days ago. And no, she doesnt rub her head on me at all (I *hate* horses that do that :mad: ). She turns round as if to ask what I am doing - sometimes nuzzling my arm. She has done this for weeks I guess but the nuzzling has cut down dramatically. I do push her head away when she does it.

Galadriel - Shes certainly growing up. I think its a 'marish' thing though, shes fine for 2 weeks, then she turns. I know, I know, I have to teach her that she has to respect me no matter what mood shes in, its hard with broken ribs :rolleyes:

No, she starting snapping whilst leading before the leg. I think thats one genuine thing though, it seems to really bother her for some reason. I cant find a cute, bite, scratch, rash, anything. I'll try washing it down.

I have been pushing her head away when she nuzzles. I dont mind her turning round - theres not really any harm in that is there? Surely not if shes not pushing, mouthing etc, just looking? I have been pushing her head away when she nuzzles but not when she looks, this eems to have worked.

Thanks for the website too, will chekc 'em out!

:D
 
Originally posted by notpoodle
i think i'd be worried i'd get bitten again when trying the 'firm massaging of the upper lip' thing. is there any particular way of doing this?
Click to expand...

Those are Cherry Hill pages; I haven't used those exercises much (haven't had to deal with too many biting horses). I have done the nose massage thing a couple of times. When you've got a hold on the outside of a horse's lip, he really can't get you with his teeth.
 
Poor ouchy Jay.o, with her horse taking advantage of her! Naughty Mysy.

If she doesn't get into your space when she turns around, then it shouldn't be something you have to correct. As long as she isn't getting away with invading your space, it should be all right :)

The Cherry Hill articles have some good suggestions for correcting a biting horse while leading, without making it an obvious correction. Hopefully something in there will be an exercise that you can use while still ouchy. Good luck with that.
 
Sorry - no actual advice - but the itchy leg syndrome isn't limitted to Mysy at the moment. I've ridden two horses this week and both of them have had itches that they wanted to stop and deal with. Neither of them have feathers.

Typical that she'd chose to get antsy while you're so sore :(

Hope you get it sorted and Mysy goes back to being a good girl :)
 
Oh dear - I think you're experiencing the teenage tantrums that Dolly thought up last week! However, I have comforting words for you - give her a challenge!

I've spent days preparing for today's show - insisting on nice leading, standing square, loading sensibly etc, and really praising her when she does well.

Today, not a trace of teenage naughtiness. She was even giving me kisses in the line-up before she fell asleep :)
 
Murphy gets itchy hocks - I second Galadriel's advice, washing them down with something like Hibiscrub has worked wonders for Murph, as has adding a scoop of D-itch to his feeds.

He still itches at his front leg the minute I get off him but this is actually not his leg that's itchy, it's his face (I know this because he used to try and itch it on me, then when I let him know it was unacceptable behaviour, he moved on to his foreleg!) - I tend to dismount somewhere I can leave him quietly for a minute and just let him get it over with before taking him back to his box, as he never tries to itch when I'm on him and he's good about waiting til I hit the ground before going for it, so I see no harm in letting him have a scratch once I'm off.

The biting does sound like testing of boundaries, she's only little, after all! Murphy has taken to turning his head and putting his nose on my bum when I'm picking his left-hand hooves up - not quite sure if this is something I should be nipping in the bud or not, all he seems to be doing is resting his nose on my bum when I'm bending down (maybe it looks like a handy shelf....:rolleyes: ). Anyway, I hope that Mysy gets over herself soon!
 
One way I've been told works to stop biting is to "accidentally" tread on the horse's coronet every time it bites. That way, it associates biting with an unpleasant feeling, but it doesnt associate the unpleasant feeling with you:)
 
John Lyons teaches the same concept about grabbing the lip/face when they go to bite or nuzzle into your space. Basically the horse sees it as a game and they really do. What you're doing is saying to the horse that by going into your space, you're going to annoy them by rubbing all over their face/mouth and soon they'll come up on their own that the game isnt fun anymore. This way, you dont have to "discipline" her, you're just playing the game back - and you'll win ;)
 
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