Being the leader out hacking

[squidsin]

So me and my lovely Roxy haven't quite got this hacking malarkey sussed. I think the problem is that, when I am riding her on hacks, Roxy thinks she is the leader, therefore is reactive to anything that she sees as a potential threat. When I am leading her, she is happy and relaxed and I am in charge. I have no problem leading her past spooky items that I'd struggle to ride her past. She likes plodding along with me walking beside her! But isn't quite so keen on me riding her!

So, how do I convince her that I am the leader when I am riding her? Is she doing this because she can sense I am nervous? - although I don't think I am THAT bad! But then again, we don't have any issues at all in the school, where I am completely confident.

 

[Trewsers]

Although you may not think you are transmitting even a hint of nerves, you could well be. I think Storm can sniff the slightest hint - which is why I have to be really relaxed and sure of myself in order for our hack to succeed! I find in hand walking her easy - and often get cross with myself for not being able to do the same from her back! I truly don't know the answer - but I think you are doing well, as you've not been together that long - what's my excuse?! Lol, even after all these years I haven't got it pegged!
Sorry not very helpful! I think it can only be practice?

 

[Mary Poppins]

I don't believe that you should be the leader, I think that you should be in partnership together. A 'leader' indicates that you are the dominant person and have the right to direct the other person/horse to do anything. This may be possible if the person/horse chooses to follow, but if they don't agree to follow you blindly and you don't listen to their opinion, they can often rebel and do the exact opposite (e.g. the spinning).

When I did my confidence course the trainer talked about setting the balance of power at 75% human and 25% horse. While you make the majority of the decisions, your horse has the right to their opinion and you have a duty to listen to it. By listening to the horse and being considerate to their feelings, thoughts and worries, you will gradually develop a trust together and over time your horse will begin to trust your decisions.

Take a scary object out hacking (e.g. a wheelie bin). The horse may take one look at it and freak out. As the rider you have 75% of the decision making and your horse has 25%. As the rider you may decide that you need to get past the wheelie bin and continue on your hack (that's the 75% bit). Your horse needs to accept that he can't turn round but he also needs your support to get past the scary bin. Their part of the 25% is to decide how best to get past the bin. Depending on the horse, they may bend like a banana past it, jog past, put their head up, start snorting, or they may need you to get off and walk them past because it feels more comfortable for you to go first. It all comes down to knowing your horse and working things out together.

If you go into situations with the 75%/25% mindset then you start to work more together as a team and as a result your trust in each other will build and you start to instictively know how each other will react to a situation. It all takes time and understanding. When I see or hear of people shouting 'give him a smack to get him past it' I cringe - to me that is bullying and will only build fear and resentment rather than trust.

 

[squidsin]

That is really interesting MP. When I lead Roxy past scary things - as in things she finds scary, obviously I don't - she likes me to go first, and be between her and whatever it is. I don't really have one side that I prefer leading from and neither does she, both are fine. I think it helps her to see me go past it first. It seems to give her confidence that she can see me, and it also helps me to be able to talk to her and see her face, which I can't when I am riding her. It doesn't seem to make a huge difference to her if another horse goes past first, if she doesn't like it, she will ignore the horse and its reaction and still try and spin and go in the opposite direction. She isn't one of those horses that reacts to everything - she is fine with wheely bins, most lorries etc, people, dogs, kids, basically most things apart from tractors, trailers and balloons! And pheasants flying out of a hedge into her face, but I reckon most horses aren't keen on that either! So I don't want to give the impression she is a panicky neurotic horse because she isn't. I think the 75%/25% idea makes a lot of sense. I might read up on that, I think! Thanks!

ETA - I also think the 'give her a smack to get her past' thing is bollocks. It's OK if it's plain naughtiness, but it's hardly going to help if she's scared of something and then associates being smacked with it as well.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I think that it is all about knowing when your horse is genuinely scared and then working out how to best get him moving. With Ben, he will plant when he is scared and if I push him then he will panic and spin. When he is genuinely worried then he puts his head right up, puts his ears forward and I can feel his heart beat increase. When I first got him he used to be scared of small ponies and his heart would beat so hard I could feel it through the saddle. He also moves all this weight onto his back legs so he is ready to spin.

I have learnt that when he gets like this he needs some time to work it out. Therefore the first thing that we do is to sit and wait for a few moments. Sometimes he will calm down once he realises that there is nothing to be scared of. Other times I will get off and lead him past whatever is worrying him. He will always walk on when I am on the floor, but he also likes me to be on the side of the scary object. My big problem with this is getting back on again as he is a big horse, but it always works out somehow!

Of course, he will sometimes 'pretend' to be scared and this is him being naughty. He will sometimes plant himself for no reason but I don't get the head in the air, the snorts, the backward shift in weight or the heartbeat. When he plants like this he gets a tap on the bum and told to walk on!

I think that it takes time to develop a real relationship and get to the little quirks. I have owned Ben for 3 and half years now and it's only really recently that I can say that I know him inside out.

 

[PePo]

I've done loads of in-hand hacking with Pete. Although he's innately a confident horse, he's had bad associations with being ridden & is actually very worried. - although outwardly, you might just think he's 'strong', 'opinionated' or 'naughty' as he isn't shaking like a leaf, it's just he shows his nervousness in different ways. For him, it was either setting his neck & 'running off' ( I've been run away with in walk ), spinning or planting. Or, rodeo-ing like a good'un if pushes past his threshold.

We do Natural Horsemanship - so our approach might be slightly different - but we've spent ageeees (like 2 years) walking out in hand. Initially, I went first, then I got to his shoulder, then walking level with where his saddle would be & then behind him (like I was long lining - but only one rein).

If he's worried by something - I'd come further up to front & if need be, leaf him past. But I've also done loads of advance & retreat towards & away from scary things. We've also done loads of stopping (he had real problems just standing), turning back on ourselves & just going back up the same track so that he realises it's nothing to worry about - sometimes we go back in ourselves, sometimes we might cross cross or sometimes we do a circular route. To be fair, as he set his neck - I didn't have a hope in he'll of setting the direction, let alone anything else

Then we walked in hand with tack on - then we built up to in-hand walking & just practising pretending to mount at the end, then we'd practise mounting & just standing at the end if our ride, then we'd aim for the last 100 metres ridden, then a little more.

It's taken a long time, but we've done a few rides lately where I've been able to ride almost the whole of the way around. Ok, so they've only been 20-30 minute hacks, but it's been progress for us

Mum still comes out on foot & we try to aim for her to be just behind us - but sometimes, she'll lead is past something semi-scary if I don't think I need to get off but he could do with a bit of hand holding.

For me, not seeing getting off as a 'failing' has changed everything - it doesn't matter if I lead the whole way round or still now, past our stickiest areas or if I ride the whole way. My instructor likens it to a bank - it's our job to keep ensuring there is money there (ie the relationship with our horse & looking after their confidence) in that bank, but eventually that bank balance will start to pay us back - but we still need to keep it topped up.

I am lucky though - we have off road hacking, so I can lead quite happily for miles. I lost a load of weight too, walking up & down hills!

Honestly though, if I can do it - anyone can, I'm not a naturally confident hacker ... Especially after some of Pete's earlier antics

 

[Jessey]

I like the 25/75 idea, I think its acceptable for them to look and let you know they are concerned, jess does it all the time and normally I just say 'dont even think about it' and she carries on, occasionally she cant and I have to wait her out with gentle encouragement.
A few weeks back she did a 180 because there was a dog lying on the green getting a belly scratch, I stopped her and turned her back the right way and she banana'd and snorted all the way past. She had been more reactive to all sorts for a few rides. It was haylage that had escalated her warning to a full on spook though I noticed no difference in her behaviour at home, it might be worth reviewing what you feed to minimise any possible effects. I saw the same guy and dog last night and she looked at them but no reaction even though she was on the buckle.

 

[squidsin]

I don't think it's her feed - she only gets a tiny feed of half a scoop of speedibeet and a handful of hi-fi lite twice a day, with her balancer and supplements. That hasn't changed since I got her. I don't think she's more spooky than when I got her, although having owned her since June, I think we're both more comfortable with each other BUT she knows when she can push my buttons a bit, and perhaps I over-anticipate what is likely to spook her, such as the building site in the next village. But I don't feel any guilt about getting off and leading either, in fact, as we have to do a lot of roadwork, I prefer that to sitting on a horse that's dancing about and spinning in the middle of the road, with people glaring at me from their car windows like 'that woman can't control her horse!' And she is only 14.2 so I can get back on easily enough. She likes it when I get off though, she's like 'hey Mum, we can have a nice walk together, how about I graze this bit of common now, you don't mind, right?' So it's pretty disappointing for her when I get back on again!

 

[MrC]

You will transmit any nerves to your horse, the calmer and less fazer you are about things the less they react has always been my experience. Also not making a drama out of a spook or scare.

If kia spooks (which is rare) I ignore him and he is fine. If he gets a genuine fright then the worst he does is go forwards on trot a few steps then he looks for my cue. If he is taking the piss (again rare) then he gets growled at and reminded that he's to go past whatever it is with my legs voice then stick if necessary. Usually a growl is enough as he knows the progression by now

I believe that if you ride like everything is safe and in control then the horse will hack like It

 

[newforest]

I have a partnership and at the end of the day its my idea to hack its not theirs. She has all her needs met "at home" so leaving the prairie to go searching for new grazing and water holes is pretty pointless-I always comeback!
It took 18 months to get my lass to take her first steps off the yard ridden solo.
I dont feel the word leader means tell or dominate, to me it means to offer support and guidance when needed. If she could only go off inhand, thats what we did.
I took her out solo after a three month break this week, I expected at somepoint for her to say either "Hum, not sure if I can go by that" or 'Bloody hell whats that!" The second requiring my support beside her. The first she can get past if you are patient.
In order to build trust and confidence the horse needs to be able to deal with the situation, but, if they really cant, know you can deal with it.
If you were nervous about learning to swim, would you trust a teacher who let you think about how to get in the pool, or one who pushed you in.

 

[Cortrasna]

A lot of brilliant advise here - most methods I have used myself at one time or another with various horses. Just a though though, if you really feel she might be picking up on your nerves when you are out and about, it might be worth trying this stuff:

http://www.paxhorse.co.uk/

Brilliant if you are feeling slightly edgy they will pick up the tiniest wobble of confidence from you.....use a little spray of this on you wrists and then rub gently around their muzzle before you set off. The last horse I used it on (JJ a very strong young cob that I was making nervous with my nerves) reacted very well to it and it really did help to build our hacking out relationship.