At what stage can laminitis not be helped?

laceyfreckle

laceyfreckle

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2007
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Essex/Suffolk
Ellie has full blown laminitis.

She was hesitant coming in from her field two days ago and the next day, a bit lame. She has been on box rest since the day she was hesitant coming in.

At the moment she is lame on her off fore, well more lame. She's actuallu lame in all 4 but the off fore is the worse. Her near hind swells occasionally because she is in and has srthiritis (would bandaging this help?)

She is already on 1 bute a day as standard for her arthiritis etc

She isn't unhappy, her mind is good and she is still attentive but she is lame within two strides of coming out of her stable and she refuses to turn (stands and politely objects) and is slow. When standing she moves her front feet periodically up and down and shifts her weight.

I don't mind how long it takes or how much money it would take to improve her but I don't know if this is the end of the road.

Her last lot of x-rays with her original laminitis attack were taken in march this year and showed 10-13% rotation, causing sinking of the bone and the tip of the pedal bone had some remodelling where it had nearly coe through the sole.

Her soles are not cracked at present but there is a slight bulge and she is very tender on it even from finger/thumb pressure. She has imprint shoes on at the moment so i can't see her hoof very well.

I will call out the vet tomorrow but vet like most vets doesn't like to give a definite answer as to what to do. If she is saveable i will but i don't want her to go through more then what she has to.

Answers anyone?
 
notpoodle said:
often when the pedalbone is touching the sole :( some can be saved but it's a long process and not always feasable for an older horse :( so sorry to hear this :( x
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Thank you notpoodle......I just wish she wasn't so bright in herself...It is a pity I just can't somehow get her a new body as it is her body that is failing her rather then her 'age' as such.

I will see what vet says tomorrow but have a horrible suspicion of what she will say. Do you think it is worth asking for some x-rays tomorrow of her fronts done on-site?

I said to my 10yr old son, her main carer/rider today what it might mean and he started crying, he doesn't really do crying. This is hard.
 
When the bone comes out you have no other choice, however i would make a decision ideally before that happened.

Is she is season? I ask this because my cob looks lami when in season. If she is could that account for some of the episodes. I am not saying she doesn't have lami as well i am just suggesting another possible reason. I have never seen a horse that struggles when in season-i have now.

Your pony isn't in front of me and i agree the vet can be a bit non answer giving. If you ask how much pain they are in that may help. With Jack i got told that the painkillers would only last a few hours, then the pain killers are not working. That put things into respective that he was on the downhill slope.
 
see what the vet says when he sees her. probably worth asking them to bring x-ray equipment if they have this available for on-site visits. really feel for you, i cant even begin to imagine how hard this must be :(
 
From what I've learnt (and I don't claim any expertise) it doesn't sound terminal to me, and if the latest attack is recent then it's early days anyway. But we can only second guess on the basis of what you've posted here, your vet is the one to guide you on this one.

I suspect that if you x rayed a yard of 'average' horses you'd find quite a lot of sinking and various degrees of rotation even in horses that weren't lamintic as such.
 
newforest said:
When the bone comes out you have no other choice, however i would make a decision ideally before that happened.

Is she is season? I ask this because my cob looks lami when in season. If she is could that account for some of the episodes. I am not saying she doesn't have lami as well i am just suggesting another possible reason. I have never seen a horse that struggles when in season-i have now.

Your pony isn't in front of me and i agree the vet can be a bit non answer giving. If you ask how much pain they are in that may help. With Jack i got told that the painkillers would only last a few hours, then the pain killers are not working. That put things into respective that he was on the downhill slope.
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No, not in season although yes i do think seasons definitely can affect LGL symptoms. I think that is some of the problem without the bute she would be unable to walk. when i have forgotten her bute before she has been hobbly but sound when on bute at the moment she is on more bute and not sound at all.

Yann said:
From what I've learnt (and I don't claim any expertise) it doesn't sound terminal to me, and if the latest attack is recent then it's early days anyway. But we can only second guess on the basis of what you've posted here, your vet is the one to guide you on this one.

I suspect that if you x rayed a yard of 'average' horses you'd find quite a lot of sinking and various degrees of rotation even in horses that weren't lamintic as such.
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I really do hope your right Yann, what would you do? Treat as normal laminitis? I think what doesn't help is she hasn't recovered from her last founder episode. Her last proper episode started november last year and was near the sole in march this year. She has improved a little since then but before this was still not sound although again i don't know how much of that was lami not sound and how much arthiritis and one exasparates the other. I have her old x-rays i will put on in a minute.
 
Not quite the same with Solomon...but a hard and similar decision time none the less. My vet made it quite clear that we could no longer keep him pain free and we could no longer guarantee if he lay down that he would be able to get up again on his own.

So No - my vet didnt directly say he should be put down..but gave me the reality check and the blunt facts I needed to enable me to make the decision myself, in my own time. In my case one weekend of pumping him full of bute to no avail was enough.

If you listen carefully to what your vet is saying you can probably read between the lines and make your own mind up.

I am so sorry and really hope that the vet may still have some positive thoughts for you to mull over? xx:twins:
 
Lf I would genuinely be considering a prascend trial - I know she tested neg for cushings but autumn time is when ACTH levels rise and things often go to pot.

Does your yard have any cow sheds? That would give her more movement but no grazing?
 
Here you go, this is what we have started with, so I am worried what damage this further lami attack may have done. (These were admittedly taken when a trim was due a week later so do look slightly worse then if done after a trim)

elliex-ray1.jpg


elliexray2.jpg
 
i often find farriers are better with laminitis than vets.

if it founders and comes through the sole then i think you are completely done but if it isn't as bad as that there are still recovery options, but it can be a long time off, deep litter, and it depends on whether or not the horse can cope with the sort of regime required.

good luck tomorrow
 
Another here who would be guided by my vets imput. Maybe have her x-rayed and see what it shows, but it does seem like her quality of life is suffering if she`s had to bouts of lami so close together ? .... Thinking of you all, it`s never a nice time, but do listen to what thevets have to say first and foremost xx
 
Without seeing I can't say. I certainly think your right about getting more x-rays, & how much support do her Imprint shoes give? Would she be better with Styrofoams fitted? I think I'd try to get the farrier out at the same time as the vet, that way any adjustments needed can be done there & then with any pain relief needed.

Fingers crossed for her x
 
Cortrasna said:
Not quite the same with Solomon...but a hard and similar decision time none the less. My vet made it quite clear that we could no longer keep him pain free and we could no longer guarantee if he lay down that he would be able to get up again on his own.

So No - my vet didnt directly say he should be put down..but gave me the reality check and the blunt facts I needed to enable me to make the decision myself, in my own time. In my case one weekend of pumping him full of bute to no avail was enough.

If you listen carefully to what your vet is saying you can probably read between the lines and make your own mind up.

I am so sorry and really hope that the vet may still have some positive thoughts for you to mull over? xx:twins:
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Problem is i think i know what vet will suggest between the lines. Last time she saw her she told me she isn't likely to improve, give up on the schooling - ride her hacking for as long as she is happy with tinies and when i have to give her more then 2 bute a day then think about options. She did say to me she thinks winter will be hard. but then as she said she hasn't given up and is happy.

popularfurball said:
Lf I would genuinely be considering a prascend trial - I know she tested neg for cushings but autumn time is when ACTH levels rise and things often go to pot.

Does your yard have any cow sheds? That would give her more movement but no grazing?
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I have got some parascend, had it for a while. Vet seemed to think it wouldn't do any good though but i will ask tomorrow if it is worth a shot. I can rig her up a paddock with no grazing if needed, YO is lovely
 
so sorry to hear -with the lammi being active then what you describe is from my experience par for the course - I would recommend X rays again - we had no rotation thank goodness but lammi is not the death sentance it used to be -
for me its got to be know what you are dealing with and then ask yourself what is it going to take based on that information = if there is no further rotation then you have been down there before - at the end of the day its the welfare of the pony and the prognosis for quality of life long term - we were told companion at best, that was good enough for me and look where we are now but its been hard work and means management for life - whatever decisions you reach I know it will be whats best for ellie - will be thinking of you....
 
No advice - just lots of sympathy and good thoughts to you all - must be so hard, specially with your kids. Lots of gentle hugs to Ellie. Wishing you good thoughts.Txxx
 
If she is bright in herself and still able to get up and down and move aroundand you feel still has quality of life then don't make the call yet.

I know it is a very old fashioned and nowadays frowned on idea but I had an elderly laminitus prone pony that the vet suggested taking for daily paddles in a shallow pond. Pony liked it so much we progressed to putting bowls of water on her yard which she chose to stand in. She led a full life until her late twenties.
 
eml said:
If she is bright in herself and still able to get up and down and move aroundand you feel still has quality of life then don't make the call yet.

I know it is a very old fashioned and nowadays frowned on idea but I had an elderly laminitus prone pony that the vet suggested taking for daily paddles in a shallow pond. Pony liked it so much we progressed to putting bowls of water on her yard which she chose to stand in. She led a full life until her late twenties.
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my farrier said its pity we didn't have a shallow stream with easy access otherwise he would have sugested it. But moving is mustfor us.
 
It's a good idea to have vet and farrier together, if you can possibly arrange it.

I had a pony with lammi; when it was bad and I was waiting for the vet to come I'd put her in stable with deep bedding, to support the feet as much as possible, and feed her nettles. I don't know if it did any good, but it made me feel better ...

And I'd say do make the call, but just don't make any decisions in a hurry.

Fingers crossed for you, and healing vibes for Ellie.
 
Much crying into ponies mane tonight.

My 10yr old is being very good about it, although he got really upset tonight as he thinks she is much worse. Incidentally we didn't actually get Ellie for him but he is the one that has been caring for and riding her for the last year and they have progressed immensily (he was hacking her out on his own etc).

We have decided to call vet but to insist on more x-rays of her fronts. I am happy to carry on for as long as the pony wants to. She is eating and although she doesn't want to walk/move she is still taking notice of things around her.

Luckily she is easy to keep on box rest. I hate it more then she does i'll admit.

She is quite sore tonight, just got back from last check. I have upped her bute so she has had almost 2 sachets tonight as she looks sore and is constantly weight shifting.

The one thing that really concerns me, well two actually is 1.) The bulge showing her founder just under her coronet is wider and deeper then it was, particularly on the the two worse feet and it is sore to touch and white/flaky. The worse front foot is now sore to finger pressure on the sole under the point of frog.

It is interesting the point about the cold water because i do hose her feet for 5 mins under running water twice a day, was always told this helps, if nothing else but then for pain relief.

I am going to phone farrier tomorrow too, need to talk to him anyway but would be good for his opinion - he is always far more optimistic then the vet!
 
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