Arthritus, buting up for riding? *long, sorry*

Ms Kitty

Ms Kitty

I'd rather play Polo
Aug 19, 2006
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Portsmouth, UK/Occasionally Finland
I am planning on leasing a horse for myself for the coming winter Polo season, as I haven't been able to find one I would like enough to buy, picky me.. ;)

My YO has offered me her old competition mare and I have been given it some thought, have sat on her now for few times just walking/slowly trotting around as she is really unfit and I have to say I quite like her, but have now become faced with few issues..

The mare is about 17-18 years old (no one knows for sure) though acts like she is 5-6 :rolleyes:, she has not been used for about 2 years now (they wanted to breed from her but she was empty both times) as she was not good enough for the level Polo YO plays but still not a beginner pony as very fizzy, so she has just been out in the field with the other broodmares. There just hasn't been anyone good enough to give her work and YO is too busy with the ones she plays with, so it is a bit of a shame as this mare loves playing and is a true workaholic type horse. In that sense she would be the perfect horse for me for this winter!

She has, however, arthritus in her front fetlocks (especially on the right) and some other old bumps on her, which means that she would probably have to be buted up for anything faster than walk. All the problems she has, have been checked by the vet and there is nothing that can be done to them, and she is occasionally unsound because of them, hence the need of bute. Not hopping lame, just unsound. You can see the stride in the fronts is not quite of equal lenght at a trot, but that is about it. The few strides of canter I did, she didn't appear unsound but that wasn't really long enough to say for sure. I don't want to canter her more yet, because of her fitness state. So I don't really know what the state of her unsoundness would be in normal amount of work.

I have been reading almost everything I have been able to find about this matter.. I have never used bute on any of my own horses (but then again, there has never been the need for that either with them), I have given a sachel every now and again to the old lesson ponies we have when they have been a bit stiff and YO has told us to do so, but that is about it. With this mare I'd be looking to give her bute for at least 3-4 days a week over period almost a year long..

I know some say long time use of bute can cause among other things liver problems etc, and some research says that these things are just co-incidence etc.. So don't really know what to think about that.. And I know I could probably try substituting the bute with something less damaging? And I would, of course, give her all the other supplemets that would help dealing with her problems.

But the question that haunts me, is that would it be right to do this whole thing in the first place..? I have been taught that if a horse is lame, he/she should not be used until sound again. I have never really had to deal with arthritus or anything like that causing unsoundness, unsoundness that is chronic/uncurable no less! So am at a loss.. At the moment she is living relatively comfortably in her field, not doing any work and getting rather fat, but on the other hand she isn't really being looked after more than the most necessary care either. I have also read that light work would be better for arthritus than no work at all..?

But I would be using her for Polo. I am still a pretty much novice player, I would be playing on soft surface arena and the level of play I do is fast only occasionally, but no way near the speeds professionals go. I would be playing couple of chukkas (about 7min long) maybe 2-3 days a week, then other 2-3 days would be just keeping up her fitness doing longish hacks (not on hard surfaces). So, unless there was an accident, the likelyhood is that she wouldn't be suffering any new injuries, she would just be coping with the already excisting ones. And it would not really be what one would call a heavy use, when talking about Polo ponies..

YO doesn't seem to think there would be any problems with this arrangement.. Unless the mare would be so unsound that bute wouldn't clear it, when I of course wouldn't ride her!! She is still too unfit to test how unsound she would be when properly playing even with the bute, but should I even be trying..? I haven't asked our vet for her opinion yet, haven't gotten that far in this whole porcess but will at some point, just thought I'd ask some opinions here first.

Of course if she was so lame that bute wouldn't clear it, I would not be playing/riding her! And I really don't want to cause any pain to her.. Some people say it is not going to be a problem, some don't really know what to say.. I don't know either..

What do you think? Would appreciate all opinions! Sorry this is so long.. :eek:

Nina x
 
Gosh...it's a dilemma isn't it? hmmmm I personally don't like to use bute to treat arthritis not because of the long term effects but because if something really were to happen to cause lameness (other than the arthritis itself) then the bute can mask that. Exercise is good for an arthritic horse. I have found a "magic supplement" (as Kate W likes to call it :D) the results of which have simply blown me away...but I'm not sure if it is available over there. You could research it to find out though. Thing is....a job like the one you are offering this horse could be just what the doctor ordered.
 
Hmmm!!

Personally its not something i would be comfortable with doing... the hacking sounds like it would be good for her as i have seen arthritic horses improve through gentle exercise, but its the polo that i would be uncomfortable with.

Having said that i don't know enough about it at the level you would be using her for, but it seems to me that it is quite hard on those joints she already has the damage in and personally i wouldn't want to add to that existing damage.

Long term buting doesn't sit particularly well with me, but it *may* be beneficial for this mare to be buted to begin with and then the exercise may solve some of her issues.

:)
 
Couldn't find that Cetyl M stuff from UK through googling, so have emailed them to ask if they deliver to UK or if there are stockists here.

I know there are other products I could try in the mean time (she is not on anything at the moment!), such as glucosamine, cod liver oil, cortaflex, apple cider vinegar etc.. But how do I pick what to try and with stuff like apple cider vinegar, how do I know the dosage? Which ones work as a combination, which ones don't? Never had to deal with this stuff before.. :eek:

Nina x
 
i asked cetyl-m about this last week actually, and yes they will send to the uk. the postage might become an issue. however, i found the cost of the product to be absolutely negligible compared to any other treatment. and what's really neat about it, is its effects kick in really quickly if they're going to - it's not one of these long-term things where you're never quite sure if its doing anything. summer was sound almost overnight and within 6 weeks had gone from stumbling lame, very depressed and in dreadful condition, to happy fat shiny and fully sound for 5 hour hikes :eek: . she's jumping again now - small jumps cos she's teaching me. so if the shipping is at all workable it would definitely be worth trying one bucket of it - it either works or it doesn't !

ps she had some sort of arthritis / wearing out of the hocks and a quick trot on hard ground had left her very reluctant to walk. vet tests would have moved the diagnosis on from 'some sort of joint wearing out' to 'arthritic sort of joint wearing out' with the cheapest treatment being something like $600 twice a year ... the tests would have been $200 .. but the bucket of cetyl-m is around $30 a month. since its working we haven't looked into the other stuff much. she sometimes gets acv too, but tbh ive not seen any effect of that whether she gets it or not.
 
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I would be uncomfortable buteing to ride at all hard, for some sorts of arthritis gentle exercise can increase mobility and comfort so regular short, slow hacks can be of benifit but doing harder work which includes faster work, tight turns or even lots of circles could cause more problems.

Re the long term effects of bute, at the rate you mention over the period of a year or even 5 it probably won't be an issue, its long term high doseage that tends to cause the problems, but there is also a new form of bute, Danilon, which has been developed to minimise the long term risks, it is slightly more expensive but not by much so a good option if that concerns you.

I would talk to your YO, ask things like when was it an issue (what sort of work load etc) before she was retired, perhaps it won't flare up at the lower level you will be doing and she won't need the bute esp if your YO was doing alot at a high level???????

There are also options such as Devils claw (a herbal remedy) which are meant to work for some horses though there are also similar concerns about the long term effects of this but as it is not as effective as bute it shouldn't hide it so well that you can't see when it is flaring up etc and some people have had fantastic results with some of the other supplements you mentioned.

Personally if your YO would agree I would start fittening her up a bit and see ow things go, just pay very close attention to what she is doing and see how much she can cope with then make a final decision for there.
 
I use Devils Claw and Cortaflex and believe that work and fitness is actually better for most slightly arthritic horses. I am however talking repetitive not particularly stressful work on a surface.

Polo I suspect will be much tougher on the horse but to be honest at her age I would tend to try getting her fit and see as I suspect she will soon let you know if she is not comfortable. Again at 18 I would not be too worried at the possible long term effects of bute if that is needed to make her comfortable, I suspect from your description she may be happier working on bute than being a field ornament without.
 
i am prescribed anti inflamitories(sp) for my arthritis......why not use them for your horse?

When bute is used for the purpose for which it is intended - either for short or long term use, i cant understand the hang up some people have for using it. As long as it is not abused what is the problem?
 
Thank you all for your replies, they are muchly appreciated and have given me lot to think about! :)

It is not so much about using the bute, I was kind of half expecting to use it for the chukkas anyway because of her age, but what I didn't expect was that I might have to use bute every time I go riding. But it is not so much about that either.. (Though of course I would prefer to not have to use it at all)

I am more worried about putting her through this whole thing when I know she has unsoundness issue.. And especially doing Polo.. I would stop playing with first signs of obvious discomfort though, not to cause any further damage! I guess I will have to have a good chat with YO about the issues she has had and how they have been dealt with in the past, and I guess after that it is just gettting her fit and seeing how it would go..

Thanks once again! I will post updates when I know more! :)

Nina x
 
I have been warned you don't want to use more than 1/4 cup of ACV at a time because of the high levels of Phosphorous (sp?) But there are great benifits I posted on another thread with links ...I think it was a Fly Repellent thread? anyway...it will sweat out the pores making them un-attractive to the little pest :p.

It's been proven to ease athritis in dogs and humans too. Mix 1 TBS of Honey to 1 TBS of ACV once taken daily has done wonders for many through the years for the aging.

That said I would seriously concider putting her through a series of Legend first then Adequan and maintain monthly if you decide to use her very much at all. I don't like to use Bute for such things as there are too many side effects and who want ulcers?. It's a great drug but is not meant for long term or repetitive use.
 
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thoroughlybred1 said:
i am prescribed anti inflamitories(sp) for my arthritis......why not use them for your horse?

When bute is used for the purpose for which it is intended - either for short or long term use, i cant understand the hang up some people have for using it. As long as it is not abused what is the problem?[/QUOTE]

The fact that prolonged use is proven to cause Ulcers is a big problem...Ulcers are far bigger problem than most realize. They claim up to 80% of our Equine athelets suffer with them. Many claim unhappy or unwilling horses must suffer from either saddle issue, teeth, boredom...but have not heard one mention on here the possibility of ulcers...especially for the stressed horse.
Here is some more info. to better answer your question..



Adverse Effects Associated With Systemic NSAIDs
by: Press Release
January 2005 Article # 5347

Article Tools



Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) drugs are an important component of therapy for equine pain, but according to researchers at North Carolina State University's (NCSU) College of Veterinary Medicine, overuse and misuse of NSAIDs can result in gastrointestinal injury, kidney damage, and even death in horses.

Because NSAIDs such as Bute, Banamine (flunixin meglamine), ketoprofen, and naproxen are absorbed systemically and are transported throughout the body via the bloodstream, they reach unintended targets where they can have adverse effects.

Recent research conducted by Anthony Blikslager, DVM, PhD, associate professor of equine surgery at NCSU, highlights the complexity of NSAID use. Eight horses with injury of the small intestine were treated with Banamine, which is very beneficial for controlling pain and reversing some of the systemic effects of absorption of bacterial toxins from the damaged intestine. The drug slowed down the intestinal repair process as compared to horses which received no Banamine, although it did improve the comfort level of the horses. (None of the horses showed colic signs as they all received the alternative narcotic pain medication butorphanol, or Torbugesic.)

Banamine kept the intestinal lining from re-sealing for at least 18-hours, which could result in increased endotoxin absorption. According to Blikslager, "This effect was unexpected because Banamine is used for its ability to reduce the clinical signs of endotoxin absorption. Now, we need to assess the clinical importance of these findings, and look at safer drugs in the NSAID class."

What Can Horse Owners Do?

"The overall goal of pain management therapy should be to use these drugs at the lowest possible dose for the shortest time possible," said Blikslager.

There are few outward signs of the initial adverse effects caused by NSAIDs. However, if a horse is being treated with an NSAID for lameness and becomes uninterested in food and depressed, intestinal damage could be why. The next level of severity would involve episodes of colic or diarrhea. Any of these findings require immediate veterinary attention. Treatment might be as simple as reducing the dose or taking the horse off NSAIDs completely. More intensive testing involving blood analyses, endoscopy, and ultrasound might be required to determine the cause of the problem. Above all else, owners should closely follow their vet's instructions and alert him or her if problems are suspected.

It is important to note that NSAIDs can be used very successfully--some chronically lame horses get 1-gram of Bute daily for extended periods. However, it is worth considering giving horses time off from treatment, by treating only before and after strenuous exercise a few days per week, or taking them off Bute periodically to allow the gastrointestinal tract and kidneys to recover.
Click to expand...
 
I would be careful playing polo with an arthritic horse, but thats just my view :eek:
When I used to help at a polo yard, one of their 'rules' was that if a polo pony developed any long life condition on the legs to be used only for beginners or to retire from polo.
Harsh I know, but I suppose they were just being overprotective.

What handicap are you? Do you stay mainly in the faster gaits?
 
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