Would you breed from her?

Midnight_Ashes

Midnight_Ashes

Active Member
Apr 1, 2008
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County Durham
Someone asked me today if I plan to breed from Louise in the future, and it got me thinking. I have always fancied a home bred foal, though I wouldn't breed just for the sake of it. It would be a long way off yet, the mare is only coming 7 and I haven't the time, inclination or funds to breed just now.
The foal would be kept by me; I want to make it clear I am not thinking "ooh I can make a few hundred quid flogging the foal" - it would be my next one for me. However, this raises a problem - how big a stallion could she safely be covered by? I would be putting her to a TB. I measured her yesterday and she's just shy of 14.2hh.
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No I wouldn't quite honestly.......

TBH most people would 'dream' of breeding their own foal but unless
you have something particularly special its a lot of money and hard work
and WORRY........Whilst Louise is a nice enough Mare I personally can see no point unless
your Mare is SPECTACULAR

I have had several friends who have bred from some really 'nice' Mares
one lost the foal at 6 weeks old and one at 3 months in a freak accident.
The upset and financial cost was just never worth it.

The type of thing you would be looking for, TB Cross, is out there in abundance
why breed another, in fact there are people giving them away, I expect some of them never
had the intention of selling on or giving away and foals were bred with the intention of
keeping for life. It would quite honestly be cheaper to go and buy
in the long run than breed.

I think its just a question people ask, tbh, rather than thinking OMG your Mare is sooo fabulous you
must breed from her............WHY.........I have people ask me the same about Sioned.........Why would I,
coloureds also, even good ones, are out there wanting homes two a penny.
 
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That's exactly my main thinking fairlady...but then I don't want to go and buy one - someone else has started it so someone else has potentially ruined it.
I don't want a worldbeater, just a nice allrounder that I know is done right because I've done it myself :help:
 
how about buying a youngster- a blank canvass to work on rather than breeding? tbh I think there are too many horses out there requiring good homes- especially unbroken youngsters.
 
IF I won the lottery or was rich and had no financial worries, AND my
own land I would maybe consider breeding a foal.

However even then it would have to be something a lot more special
than Sioned (poor Sioned, lol) and 'different' rather than the run of the mill.

I don't agree with you MA, there are lots of weaned foals out there that
haven't been messed around with to any great degree if you go to
the 'better' or smaller breeders.

Sioned as a yearling had very little handling. She was friendly because they
had spent time with her and Mum, but had actually had next to nothing done
with her at all. She had only worn a headcollar twice before I picked her up. x

Blame lies purely on my shoulders if she ends up ruined:biggrin:

You can go see a foal at birth and pick it up at weaning, tell the breeders you don't want it handled etc., which is what one of my Friends
did eventually that had lost her foal.

Have to hold my hand up though and say its a bit of a bugbear of mine, I can't understand why the Breeders keep breeding let
alone your average Owner. Not unless you have something 'really' worth breeding from with outstanding temperament AND conformation, even then so much is down to 'luck', one bit of bad handling, one scarey experience, there are NO guarantees that what you hoped you would
breed is what you will end up with, what then?

Without appearing rude, and its the same for me, Louise, like Sioned, is a nice enough Mare for what you bought her for, I don't think
EITHER are special enough to breed from, sorry xxx
 
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Having seen a friend lose her mare and others lose foals no I would never breed from a favourite mare. Nor would I ever breed from a horse of unknown breeding, even with all the best bloodlines there is no guarantees (like our still growing 17.3 TB!!) but with unknown breeding even the best put together horse can produce a throwback of something never expected or wanted.
 
I know Sioneds breeding etc., and have all relevant paperwork, she
has excellent lines, but I still don't think its worth breeding from her when
there are many more like her out there and to be fair some much better.

I certainly wouldn't breed from something that the background/lines were unknown.
 
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But again MA, whilst a lovely Mare she isn't a 'spectacular' Welshie.

The Welshies are also going for next to nothing at the moment you could go and buy a better example of the breed dirt cheap.

As I say whilst she is perfect for what you bought her for, your Mum to
ride and enjoy, she isn't what I would go an buy with an intention of breeding
from.

To my mind if you want to breed a foal you have to use the best examples of the breed, any breed !

You would carefully pick a Stallion to put her with so why just use any Mare ?

As for saying ' I don't want to make a quick couple of hundred quid' I think people who think that are living in cloud cuckoo land. The
cost of raising a Mare in foal and then the Foal probably far outweighs the cost of straight buying nowadays.

Obviously the decision is yours and your Mums, lol, who may have other plans anyway, but whilst a nice Mare I don't think she is
a good enough example to breed from, thats not being nasty just being honest and its totally the same with Sioned.

IF I suddenly got 'into' showing in a big way and Sioned started winning everything like Supreme Champion at Royal Welsh like Dad did then maybe I would rethink, but as that is highely unlikely and she is unlikely to be anything other than a hopefully 'happy hacker' with the odd local show thrown in I don't think there is any point in breeding from her. Sioned is part bred anyway Welsh X Traditional, and there are HUNDREDS out there to choose from.
 
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stressy said:
how about buying a youngster- a blank canvass to work on rather than breeding? tbh I think there are too many horses out there requiring good homes- especially unbroken youngsters.
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Have to say I agree. My boy has fab breeding and was bought as a yearling from a stud for a couple of hundred pounds - only wish it was me that bought him then - we'd probably far less issues and he would have cost me a couple of thousand less than he did!

Anyway, I think there are some real bargains if you are willing to put the time and effort into bringing up a youngster so unless your mare is a rare breed/colour or has amazing conformation I dont see the point of "growing your own".:tongue:

If you picked up something aged between 1 and 2, it wont have been started in the real sense of the word, and you have plenty of time to sort out any potential issues.

I think the biggest problem with breeding, especially if you are mixing pony and horse breeds, is you dont know what height the youngster will make. You say the foal would be for you but unless you are comfortable riding anything from 13.2 to 17.2, there is a chance you'll have a horse/pony you cant ride.

I imagine this is even more likely when breeding when 1 parent is definitely too small for you.

Yes you hear of throwbacks - my boy was the biggest foal his stud ever bred - Ironically if he was like his parents in pace, size and stamp he wouldnt have been suitable for me at all, but in his breeder's eyes he was "an odd one for them" which just demonstrates how breeding just isnt an exact science.

To me breeding is q a big risk, although I can understand the temptation with a well loved mare.
 
Agree with the points made. There are lots of quality, proven breeding stick out there and some excellent breeders breeding quality horses. I bought mine at 2 and despite his past we HAVE moulded him into an excellent, well mannered little dude.

Echo the heartache involved in breeding. My pal was railroaded into breeding from her mare by her YO (who loaned the mare). Mare died and YO took the foal leaving my friend heartbroken. Like eml, i couldn't tolerate the heartache and would never breed from a fave mare.
 
I agree with Fairlady on this one - you can go to the sales and pick up an unhandled youngster for about £20-£30 and save him from the meatman.

I personally did breed from my mare, with the intention of retaining the foal. Puzzle has very good confirmation and a fab temperament, I have shown her to a high level and have had good success at dressage. There was a top class stallion local to us (in the year of covering Puz he was RWAS male champion, WPCS gold medal winner and reserve George Prince of Wales Cup. Two years later he qualified for HOYS) who suited Puz's type very well and so we made the decision to breed.

Although Puz is of unknown breeding, it is pretty clear what is in there and she is a very good quality pony. That said I fully acknowledge that there was somewhat of a lottery as to what could have come out although the likelihood was strong enough that it would be a good quality animal. We did end up with a beautiful filly.

However, the filly was very ill as a baby and it was the most upsetting and stressful thing I have ever been through.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, that Louise isn't of good enough quality (little star in her own right of course) to breed from and you run a strong likelihood that she will not throw a foal of good quality - which could also end up limiting the amount you can do with it.

Just as a side note - I'm sure C x D shouldn't be registered as part-bred?? Dependant on her height she should be C or D registered?? People use to cross As and Ds to give the section C so not sure why she is registered as she is? Just out of interest what lines does she have?
 
I'm going to disagree with people here - not saying your wrong, it's just not how I feel.

I have thought of possibly breeding Roxy in future. I'm not decided yet as our situation isn't the right one but it is not something I will rule out.

There are definitely risks involved that need to be carefully considered and plans identified in case things do go wrong - all obviously weighed up again the financial side of things.

So what if the mare isn't 'stunning' (not seen your pic as am at work). It's the owner's decision as to whether they would like a mini-replica of their mare. If you're looking to breed her to keep a little piece of her I don't see a problem with that - that's your decision. If you're looking just for a 'project', for want of a better expression, then buying a foal may be an alternative option.

As for knowing the background - again, it's calculated risk. I don't know my full genetic background and I may pass on 1 of 10 million disorders to my children but that won't stop me breeding. What about those who have been adopted? They aren't told to not have children.

It does feel a tad that breeding one's horse is almost taboo subject in the horse world - there are so many people against it and while I understand many of the reasons people justify their arguments, at the end of the day, it's personal decision. But I see horses as no different to any other animal or life form capable of reproduction. If it's for the intention of the owner keeping the horse for life then I see no reason against this (I appreciate personal circumstances can change & the foal could end up going to be sold).

Again, not saying people are wrong but this is how I feel about it. If it feels right for you and you HAVE carefully considered your options and situation I say go for it.
 
Midnight_Ashes said:
Her breeding is known, she is by two fully registered Welsh parents (one C and one D) so while she is registered as part bred, she is 'full' Welsh (clear as mud that!).
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That's really odd, my Welsh mare is CxD (Sire D, Dam C) is registered full Welsh D because of her height.
 
I completley agree with Roxys Mum on this one.

I was going to reply but youve put it better than i could have.
 
The issue is that MA said she is breeding the next one for her - presumably to ride therefore there are more practical issues.

Like MA I am 5' 10" and I cant comfortably ride anything under 15hh without it affecting my position. in fact I wouldnt buy anything less than 15.2 simply because I think there are horses out there more suitable for my frame.

If your intention is to breed a riding horse for yourself surely breeding from a 14.1 mare has a much higher risk of resulting in a foal that won't be fit for purpose - in which case why not buy a youngster that naturally has larger breeding?

If she want a "pet" than I agree it's a totally different matter.

Being tall sucks sometimes :(
 
No_Angel said:
That's really odd, my Welsh mare is CxD (Sire D, Dam C) is registered full Welsh D because of her height.
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Section C x Section D is a Section D not part bred. The only time fully registered C x D = PB Welsh is if the stallion is not licensed and in that case I wouldn't be breeding from his progeny.

The market really has dropped for Welshies. We used to breed them and have just given it all up because we weren't even making what it cost to breed them never mind a profit. I wouldn't breed from her to be honest - a Welshie would have to be spectacular to do that for me now. And while she's nice, she's not spectacular and she does have this niggle about parentage.

The other thing bothering me would be taht you want something bigger. There is no guarantee you'll get that even using a big stallion and the idea that mares only carry foals they can manage is a myth - I have seen both mares and foals die because they got stuck.
 
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Roxy's Mum said:
I'm going to disagree with people here - not saying your wrong, it's just not how I feel.

I have thought of possibly breeding Roxy in future. I'm not decided yet as our situation isn't the right one but it is not something I will rule out.

There are definitely risks involved that need to be carefully considered and plans identified in case things do go wrong - all obviously weighed up again the financial side of things.

So what if the mare isn't 'stunning' (not seen your pic as am at work). It's the owner's decision as to whether they would like a mini-replica of their mare. If you're looking to breed her to keep a little piece of her I don't see a problem with that - that's your decision. If you're looking just for a 'project', for want of a better expression, then buying a foal may be an alternative option.

As for knowing the background - again, it's calculated risk. I don't know my full genetic background and I may pass on 1 of 10 million disorders to my children but that won't stop me breeding. What about those who have been adopted? They aren't told to not have children.

It does feel a tad that breeding one's horse is almost taboo subject in the horse world - there are so many people against it and while I understand many of the reasons people justify their arguments, at the end of the day, it's personal decision. But I see horses as no different to any other animal or life form capable of reproduction. If it's for the intention of the owner keeping the horse for life then I see no reason against this (I appreciate personal circumstances can change & the foal could end up going to be sold).

Again, not saying people are wrong but this is how I feel about it. If it feels right for you and you HAVE carefully considered your options and situation I say go for it.
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Whilst I understand what you are saying I don't think you can relate
breeding in the Human World with breeding from a Horse.

Lots of unsuitable people probably do have Children, lol, but as a Mare
Owner we are the people who choose whether to breed from them or not.

I can understand that people may like a 'mini replica' of their Mare etc., but
unfortunately that cannot be guaranteed, even if you were to breed two
foals from the same Mare and Stallion they may not even be remotely similar.
You may have a rough idea of what they may be like but there are certainly
no guarantees.

I also appreciate what you said about it not mattering if the Mare is
stunning or not, which is true, I guess the old saying Beauty is in the eye of the beholder is True, however if you are going to breed surely you
need to breed something with good confirmation and a good example of the breed and from something that provides the basics of that in the first place.

One of the reasons that the bottom has dropped out of the Horse market is because of people indiscriminantly breeding, they can't even give away Colts at the moment and we are in the sad position of seeing them shipped off for meat or culled and thats why I personally don't agree with breeding at the
moment or in the near future unless its the 'best of the best'. There are
Hundreds of nice Horses out there with no future, worth 'meat money' and
whilst I appreciate that in an idea World every Horse would have a Home for
Life, unfortunately there are a lot of Horses that will never have a Home let
alone one for Life, so if you want a Youngster why breed another when there
are lots out there desperate for a good home. I don't agree that breeding
is a taboo subject, I guess as Horse Lovers we all just wish the situation
was different than the horrors we read about all the time. How many
people on here have we seen that have lost jobs etc., and the lifetime
home they thought they were offering their Horses thro' redundancy or
marriage breakups, have turned out to be anything but.

At the end of the day its MA's decision of course it is, but it was also
MA who asked the question.
 
i would say no too, obviously its your decision though!

i agree with the points already stated about why you shouldnt, and also the fact that whenever you have spoken about Louise you have always said she isnt your cup of tea and you didnt really like her.....putting her with a TB i dont think would get you something that would particularly suit you for a future horse (sorry i am making a fair amount of assumptions there as i dont know you personally, its just the impression i got from your other posts about Louise)

i totally considered putting Moet in foal, but to be honest i would rather not now, theres so many horses out there needing loving homes, such a shame to bring another one into the world when you could help another needy horse and also get something more likely to suit you.
 
I think if you can afford it and plan to keep it yourself, why not. I have a 3 yo home bred gelding and I wouldn't be without him, and now my current pony was injured so I have him ready to break to bring on.
 
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