Well, I hit Jack today and I'm not proud

[Bodshi]

I wouldn't dream of hitting Rafi but poor old Jack got it today. He's normally a very placid soul and a real beginner's ride but he doesn't really have good manners - you think he does because he's so laid back normally, but if something upsets him he really doesn't care about who gets in his way.

One of his few stress triggers is if he thinks he's being left in the stable while everyone else goes out. Today I was tacking him up in his stable (tied up) when a couple of friends who were ready first led their horses out to the yard. Jack immediately stressed and started swinging his (rather large) butt about. Now if Rafi did that he'd bounce back as soon as he touched me, but not Jack - no, he just doesn't notice I'm there at all and although I tried to stand my ground, I'm no match for a 16.2 stocky ID x. After a couple of times of pushing him back to where he was supposed to be, ie not squashing me against the stable wall, I got fed up and next time he came across he met my fist in his belly. I feel so bad because he did actually grunt and because I was cross and shouted at him - I was told by my RI that you can be firm but should never be angry with horses because that's what frightens them and I've always stuck by that principle with Rafi, but I was angry with Jack today.

To be fair, after that I was able to finish tacking up and we had a good ride, but I feel really mean a) that I did it at all and b) that I treat Rafi better than I treat poor Jack!

If anyone can tell me I'm not a bad person I'd be eternally grateful, alternatively any tips for not losing my temper would be helpful!

ETA Rafi is my horse and Jack is OH's, but I was riding him today.

 

[Black Beastie]

I dont see what you have to be embarrassed about. He invaded your space and could have hurt you.

No matter what triggers/upsets them they have to repect you are there and that your only asking for their respect for a few hours a day.

you giving him a fist in the belly is no where near as sore as if he annpoyed his herd leasder and they gave him a boot or a nip.

I honestly dont understand the mentality of feeling bad because you gave your horse a reprimand, my guys KNOW not to overstep the boundaries unless they want to reap the repercussions. No different than being in a herd IMO

 

[joosie]

70 kilos of human vs. more than half a tonne of horse? No contest. Of course he needed to be reprimanded... I know he was getting stressed/anxious, but regardless of his reasons for squashing you, the fact is that he did it and he needed to be pushed away for your own safety. I can assure you that your punch was not hard enough to harm a 16.2 ID!

 

[bitsnpieces]

I know exactly how you feel with this, I've been in a few pickles before where my safety has had to come first. It does make you feel absolutely terrible when you have to get a little hard with them, but unfortunately in the rush of the moment you do what you feel need to do to.

Long term, it maybe shows an area that he needs to work on - could you enlist the help of a few other liveries to help you practice? If you're practicing, then you won't be in the same awkward position as when you're trying to tack up, so you can work on staying up at the front end and calming him down.

 

[Yann]

I don't go in for hitting my horses either, but I would probably have done something similar in a circumstance where I was in danger of getting squashed. Although it's far from ideal you do sometimes need to remind them you're there, it sounds like that worked and so long as he's not flinching away from you next time you're in the stable together then not a lot of harm has been done in the scheme of things.

What I would do personally though is look at ways of working on the issue to make it less likely to happen again. Some of that might be by managing the situation and doing things like tacking up outside for example if that helps (assuming you can). But I'd also do some more work on his ground manners, getting him lighter on his feet in all directions and used to listening and responding to you, including in the stable. It's hard to get through to them if they really start to stress, but you stand more chance if you've got the responses you want a bit more on cue.

I personally find doing a bit of that kind of work with them also helps you to understand them better and that makes it easier to avoid getting cross if things are going a bit wrong

 

[Joyscarer]

Must be the weekend for it as Joy got a smack on Friday as I had to get off on a hack and then she wouldn't stand still for me to get back on.

Can really relate to you as she's normally so good and even when stressed is easy to back again but she forgets herself. After her smack she remembered her manners and was so eager to please fir the rest of the ride you wouldn't have thought it was the same pony.

I go through 2 levels of pressure asking for something she knows but the third time will result in a smack. She knows what's expected of her and I really can't remember the last time she got a smack. Shouldn't need to very often if you operate you levels of pressure right and are consistent in your expectations.

 

[Wally]

I feel so bad because he did actually grunt and because I was cross and shouted at him

You are allowed to raise your voice and use it to reprimand without there being any loss of temper on your part.

Do you honestly think he grunted in pain or surprise that you actually stood up for yourself and had a go back.

After a couple of times of pushing him back to where he was supposed to be,

This is where you are not being fair to him. He is allowed to do something once and it's acceptable, so when he does it again he gets a row.

My lot know it's not acceptable 1st time and don't do it.

 

[Wally]

70 kilos of human vs. more than half a tonne of horse? No contest. Of course he needed to be reprimanded... I know he was getting stressed/anxious, but regardless of his reasons for squashing you, the fact is that he did it and he needed to be pushed away for your own safety. I can assure you that your punch was not hard enough to harm a 16.2 ID!

Aggree with big brass shiny knobs on. ^^^^^^^^^

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

Rosie is the only one i have had to reprimand big time as she knows absolutely what to do and some times just refuses. And she will hurt you.

She just sets her head, or her frame and keeps coming. You have two choices, get out her way or fling something at her as the arm waving and making yourself big doesn't work with her. She will not stop if she is heading for you if she is in that mood.

I can now read her and know when she means it and when she doesn't but she has had headcollars thrown at her head before now to halt her when she refuses. She does know what is required, but sometimes just won't listen. Other times she is fine. That is just Rosie. If she is on the yard and won't be caught or is charging around and being a wally (sorry wally) I just walk away and come back later. It's better than getting more steamed up about her total disobedience, which is completely intentional.

Molly would never dare.

 

[Werehorse]

I am in a similar situation to you, I have my own sensitive little araby thing but I look after my OH's lumping big IDx a lot of the time (although I'm to scared to ride him!). The amount of times I have ended up having to fight my corner when OH's horse has been bargey and rude! Don't feel bad about it, in that kind of situation the reaction is always going to be laced with anger, because essentially the emotion springs from fear for your own safety. It's a perfectly normal human reaction and you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

The two horses are going to naturally respond to different levels of pressure. As someone has said it is probably worth doing a bit of ground work with Jack in order to try and establish a bit of sensitivity to a lower level of pressure.

 

[Bodshi]

Thanks everyone. I think the thing that upset me most was that I hit him because I lost my temper, if I'd done it as part of some calm rational plan to stop him barging into me it wouldn't be so bad, but I did it in anger, although you are of course right Werehorse, it was because I was scared of getting hurt and yes I can see that for my own safety (and for anyone else who has to handle him) he needs to learn not to flatten people! Still, I shouldn't have lost my temper.

We have done some groundwork with him, the same as I did with Rafi on RI's advice when I first got him - basically just leading at different paces, stopping when his handler stops, without coming into handler's space, backing, moving quarters away etc. Jack did all that perfectly, he was obviously used to doing it, but the fact that he's learned all that by rote doesn't seem to mean anything when there's something he wants to do more. Unlike Rafi. It's a bit like having kids, just when you think you've cracked it with one, the next one comes along and proves that you were only kidding yourself!

Anyway, I feel much knowing I'm not the only one who hits horses and I suppose we'll just have to be consistent with Jack so he knows what is and isn't acceptable. And I'll try to stand up for myself without having to lose my temper. Don't horses teach you a lot about yourself??

Thanks again everyone.

Just a thought - it's funny that Rafi (14.3) who gives to pressure from humans is the 'boss' of his little herd of 4 in the field (actually the other 3 are all between 16.2 and 17.2 so not so little), yet Jack who is at the bottom of the pecking order in the field, seems to think he can push humans about!