Wanting to be with you

[LindaAd]

QUOTE: It also helps greatly if your horse has learned to want to be with you & play(rather than being there because he's on lead & it's the easier than arguing) and you can 'draw' him to you when you ask. If he hasn't yet learned the above, then it would be much easier for you to keep him on line until he's reliable about it. Then taking the lead off is just the next step in the same games.


I picked this quote from Wundahoss' reply on Oscar Woo's thread about free schooling http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170174 - I hope no one minds, I didn't want to hijack the thread, but I did want to ask how you do this. My Hebe will willingly come and work or play with me as long as she's got the headcollar on; once I take it off, she's gone, to be with the other horses, or to wait for hay to arrive ...

So how do you make them want to be with you? I know people will say 'Parelli'. Or 'titbits'. Is there any other answer?

 

[xJenniferx]

I have no doubt that Tyler recongises me as someone who brings him treats, grooms him down and has an obsession with spraying his bum with freezing cold water while washing his tail, but at the same time I have come to terms with that fact that Tyler, while loving being the centre of attention, he woudl far rather be with other horses. It is something that I have tried to maintain for him. I dont know that given the choice he wodl come to me for a 5 minute chew on an apple rather than go roll in a massive pool of muck then chase another horse and rip the £200 brand new Rambo rug.

I can try to humanise tyler all I want, but he is a horse with the same basic instinct and needs as a wild horse.

I dont have an answer with regards to making a horse 'want' tp be with me, but I do wonder whether I want them to. As long as they are well behaved and enjoy to a degree spending time with me I am happy but underneath it all Tyler (and his evil little twin Hamish) are both horses and I hope they remain so

Well, that was a very philisophical post that explained and answered absolutely nothing lol.

 

[Nimbus65]

Interesting question. I think the answer may be that it depends on both the horse and the person and their relationship. Nell will spend all the time in the world with me and follow me anywhere if she thinks I have treats, but the second the snack bar is shut, she's off to be with her mates and as soon as I take her headcollar off when I turn her out, she goes off to do her own thing. Katie, though, now seeks me out when I go to the field and will spend a good long while with me, just hanging, after I've taken her headcollar off, just soaking up the affection and "being." Katie will also come over for a nuzzle when we go to poo pick. Nell will follow her, but only to see if we have treats.

They're very different beasties - Nell is very much her own horse - independent, cheeky and quirky. Katie is herd boss, but she's a benevolent dictator and she really relished human company - she'll follow us around the yard like a dog if we leave her door open. I haven't treated them differently (at least not consciously). And I don't think I've done anything specific to get either of them to "want" to be with me . . . I'm firm but fair, I think they associate me with kindness, grooming, food and general nice things. It really seems to be Katie's choice. Interestingly, yesterday Nell followed me to the fence and stood watching us walk back to the road through two more fields until we disappeared across the road. I'm not sure it had anything to do with wanting to be with me - I think she was just being nosy!

N

 

[Trewsers]

Joe will follow OH around till dark so longas he thinks there are interesting pockets to rummage in for treats - but other than that, he much prefers horse company! Storm makes no bones about it during the summer, she only comes when you rattle a bucket of carrots...........! I think it depends on the circumstances, for instance at the moment they're both on limited turnout so they do willingly come in - and you only have to open the gate for Storm to come out and shuffle over to me either for a groom or to be put back in her box - but some spring it will be a different story, once the proper turnout comes when his nibs leg is better!!!

 

[old_woman]

I think it depends on many things as to whether your horse actively wishes to be in your company.

Personally I wouldn't WANT my mare to be in my company with the intention of 'playing', as horse play is far too energetic and physical for this soon-to-be 70 year old. Neither do I want her to follow me solely in the hope of getting food treats - but she isn't very food orientated to be honest, so that isn't ever a problem.

What I do want her to do is stick to me like glue, treating me as a consistent source of security when out alone or when in what she perceives as threatening or scary situations - and she does. I am more than happy with that. After all, she is a horse and I cannot - and would never want to - fulfil her need for companionship with her own species.

 

[Dooley]

I agree with Old Woman.

But I am not sure the original quote was meant in exactly this way - I read it to mean that it helps if your horse wants to be with you when you are in a schooling environment/situation like freeschooling.
One of mine really wants to be with his handler when he's loose in the school. Follows you around when you let him go. Even more so after you've chased him away/around for a bit, made him work.... then he will really follow. But in his field? No, he wants to play with his companion or graze. He wouldn't follow me out of his field unless I had food (not tried it but am guesing that he'd probably follow for food)

My other one would rather wander off to see if there's any food in the bushes surrounding the school as soon as you unclip the leadrope, and even after having freeschoole dhim you're lucky if he stands still waiting for you to get him in, most of the time he'sll wander off back to the yummie bushes as soon as you give him the signal that schooling is over , he can rest.

 

[puzzles]

It depends on so many things! The horse's unbringing around humans, previous experiences, your current relationship ... but while your horse should enjoy your company, it is only healthy that he prefers the company of other horses.
Spending quality time together, just grazing and scratching his withers, going for walks together - in other words, enjoyable time without demanding anything from him will help your bond to strengthen.
Your horse has to see you as having an important role to him. By this, i mean that he has to trust and respect you, and see you as his leader. Plenty of groundwork helps with this enormously, as will time.

x

 

[wonkeywoody]

I can try to humanise tyler all I want,

Actually its the other way about. Its down to you to become a 'leader horse' in your horses' eyes rather than the predator nature gave us.

So how do you make them want to be with you?

You, thro the use of games, get it so the horse sees you as a trustworthy leader. ie when you indicate that he moves, he obliges - same as alpha of herd controls others'. This, with work in, around and over obstacles and scary stuff show him that you are saying it is safe to do so, therefore being with you is a good, safe, and comfortable place to be.

 

[Joyscarer]

When Joy is in the field I don't want her to play with me. I want her to continue to be in her little herd with our other pony.

Of course they will follow me about when I'm poo picking. They stick to me like glue when I fiddle with the fencing and I will catch their eye and change my posture to invite them in for a scratch.

In the field they play to gether.

With a head collar on they are ready to work. Work can be fun and games though but I have no illusions that this isn't natural behaviour and not what they would choose to do without me there.

 

[old_woman]

I have never 'played games' with my horse - at least not what I OR she would recognise as 'games' played with our own species. By that I mean that she can't play chess or golf; I can't play horse chase-and-barge, and she's not a retriever, either. I'm sure that neither of us would want to play these games together anyway!

However, she observes my body language closely when in the yard (no schools or arenas here!), the stable or the shelter, and when we are on our long rides over the hills and far away, she doesn't like me to be out of her sight during breaks, picnics, meals etc. If we are spending a night or more away from home, she likes to know where I am and if I am not camping within her sight and hearing, will call for me very loudly at dawn. it makes for a lot of very early mornings, even if I'm staying in a B&B or pub!

I sometimes think that, especially during spells of good weather, she would saddle and bridle herself if she could, then knock on the front door and ask me to take her for a good long ride ...

 

[Joyscarer]

I have never 'played games' with my horse - at least not what I OR she would recognise as 'games' played with our own species. By that I mean that she can't play chess or golf; I can't play horse chase-and-barge, and she's not a retriever, either. I'm sure that neither of us would want to play these games together anyway!

However, she observes my body language closely when in the yard (no schools or arenas here!), the stable or the shelter, and when we are on our long rides over the hills and far away, she doesn't like me to be out of her sight during breaks, picnics, meals etc. If we are spending a night or more away from home, she likes to know where I am and if I am not camping within her sight and hearing, will call for me very loudly at dawn. it makes for a lot of very early mornings, even if I'm staying in a B&B or pub!

I sometimes think that, especially during spells of good weather, she would saddle and bridle herself if she could, then knock on the front door and ask me to take her for a good long ride ...

Exactly. This is where Parelli got his use of the word 'games' so wrong.

My Joy is another one who practically puts the headcollar on herself. She loves going out on rides

 

[Yann]

Both mine arrived with me with a history of being bad to catch, Rio in particular was very bad. Unlike many horses they live a quasi naturalistic lifestyle in a large herd with room to wander. That's the centre of their universe, not me, so given the situation I wouldn't expect them to come running to see me when I turn up in the field, not if they have everything they need there.

 

[wundahoss]

Hi,

Basically, I agree with what others have said as far as 'it depends', but it's about being fun & nice to be around. Being associated with Good Stuff rather than coming to be associated with Work & unpleasant stuff is the key.

Firstly, I spend a lot of time just hanging out with my horses, just being there, giving them a good scratch(if they want it) when they come over to me.

I also play games with them, when they're feeling energetic we may play 'chasey' or 'tag'. They love playing, but I would advise you teach them the 'manners' you require from them well first, for safety, and teach them to respond to but not fear your bodylanguage, so they are happy to be chased and understand that specific bodylanguage means they can chase/tag you.

I use 'clicker training' principles in teaching & dealing with them, including food treats too. I NEVER allow a horse to 'mug' me or try to get treats from my pockets tho. I NEVER give treats if the horse is being 'rude' or otherwise showing undesirable behaviour, regardless of what 'good' stuff he might be doing at the time. I also make a point of using other positive & negative reinforcement as well, so we don't rely on treats.

For horses that will do anything for treats but nothing without them, try not to be so predictable that they learn when they're likely to get treats or not. I usually wear a bumbag with treats, but they often won't get any for the entire session. I also make sure that when I'm not wearing it, they occasionally get treats from elsewhere, so they don't think there's nothing in it for them when the pocket's empty or not there. Also find other ways to please the horse. I know many horses have not learned to actively like being groomed, so this is not a positive reinforcement(reward) for them. However, with the help of treats, I've been able to turn around a number of horses, so they associate the scratchies with treats & do actually come to like it of it's own accord.

When teaching a horse to come to me on cue, I make a point of always rewarding them for it and not immediately doing something they may perceive as unpleasant. I often call them just for the sake of reinforcing(strengthening) this behaviour, then allow or ask them to go away again.

This is how I teach them to come... I call the horse and use inviting bodylanguage to 'draw' them. I back it up with some pressure out behind them if need be, or pressure directed at their rump if they're not facing me, keep the pressure on until they respond, in whatever small way they may. I immediately negatively reinforce any response(even if to begin with it's just looking or turning an ear toward me, or hesitating to move away for a second) by dropping all pressure & looking away. I repeat the above until the horse is happy to come whenever asked. I make sure they're negatively reinforced, by ensuring there's no pressure on them when they're with me, as well as positively reinforce with treats, scratchies, whatever.