Treeless saddle rubbing..advice please

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miramis

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May 11, 2011
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Backed my mare last April in an Ideal saddle, no probs, fitted well, too small for my deriere!

Bought a mid price treeless saddle, good make, fitted fab,loved it,sadly had a few faults (stitching), got refund.

November i decided to spend a bit more (well a lot more) on a more English style treeless saddle. Tried it loved it and bought it..all good and well...until Dec/jan when this happened :frown: (rubs are at rear of saddle at the furthest point of the panel either side of her spine).

RubmarksonMirren.jpg


rep/fitter came out once i told them what was happening. They fitted front /rear shims to give some more clearance. We both thought maybe also the binding on the dressage pad (standard quilt style) so i bought a half wool dressage to eliminate this.

Been riding in this combination and the marks have become worse and hair breaking away further across her coat...

rubsaftershims.jpg


Got fitter back out again, and they checked my mares gait, symetry etc in walk trot without saddle, with saddle and with me on board. They said all ok and to just keep riding in it until her coat changes fully and to also try to put a bit more condition on her.

this is my mares back...

Mirrenbarrel.jpg


Horsey friends telling me they wouldnt be happy (esp with the cost of saddle)..am i silly to keep riding her in it...to me a well fitted saddle shouldnt rub at all..and i never had a problem with other saddles i used last year.

any advice please :happy:.

Dont want to name saddle brand as im still working with fitter to sort probem, just after some 'what would you do' advice :help:


Thanks x
 
You can pm if you like but i can guess at what make you are talking about.

The first thing that comes to mind is that you are clipped, we are also just starting to loose winter coat hair, this is one possible cause. Where it is rubbing in your first photo is due to the horse lacking muscle either side of the spine. The time you mention when the problem started is probably when the horse dropped off and was doing less work.

No a saddle should not rub, and like a treed saddle that need flocking, the treeless also has the option of panels and correct pad to act as the flocking.

Have you shortened or lengthened your stirrups?

Eta are the white fleck dandruff or little visitors?
 
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Hi, yes she has a blanket clip. I would have gone along with the coat change but this started in January? She wasnt clipped until later that month either.

She has lost condition/muscle which is why shims were/are being tried but they seem to be making things worse :-(

oh and no visitors on my horsey...shes just a bit dandruffy from being rugged 24/7 in chilly scotland :biggrin:
 
Newforest is the treeless expert here, but i will just add, we always get rub patches at this time every year as her coat starts to change. Its happened with 3 different saddles and its taken some fidgetting around with pads and saddles to get it better. This year you can just see a small scruffy patch if you look for it so guess Ive got it as right as I think im going to get! I too wouldnt be happy with bald patches like that
 
Saddle is a GP style with memory foam panels...

I tend to ride with a dressage length when schooling/hacking. Only shorten if im doing a bit of jumping. Its sold as a saddle that can be used for all round riding. I just need to change my knee blocks to suit my discipline.
 
Coats can be brittle in the winter and break when there's a bit of movement at the back.

Could be that saddle is too long and the the horses back moving is causing the rubs.

Could be that your sitting towards the back of the saddle and that's causing the rubs.

What pad are you using? Sometimes a softer pad (sheepskin can be good) will help reduce the rubbing.
 
I am no expert but was thinking using a pad to help her while she regains muscle.
We have a Skito pad with sheepskin underneath for ours and it's working very well.

That pony is probably tough to fit with the wither so far back and the back being so short, huh? What does the saddle look like on her?
 
Im using a half sheepskin GP/dressage pad, plus front and rear shims (all supplied by company to go with the saddle) ...ive spent over £2500 on it, hence being a little worried things are going wrong.

Saddle was proffesionally fitted by the companys rep so technically should be a good fit for my mare. She told me she had a very straight forward easy to fit back, nothing mentioned about far back withers or a short back?

sounds like im just going to have to persevere and hope things improve when her coat changes..although i dont fancy having a baldy horse every 6 months :frown:
 
Crikey that's a lot!
I felt like I had gotten super duper as far as treeless goes when I spent $1400 on my Sensation saddle (which has never given us any rub spots thank goodness)

Oh and disclaimer: I am no fitting expert. I was just picturing myself fitting a saddle onto a horse using your last picture. I am sure it could just be the angle or it could be that I am just clueless! lol :)
 
If it didn't rub before and suddenly started can you think back to what changed? Workload, turnout, diet.
I change pads over winter time for loss of muscle, topline. I used to change the girth as mine has a slightly forward groove which is more apparent with excess fat.

Are you having lessons? Has instructor changed how you sit? I recall having jumping lessons with one instructor who told me my saddle was raising me up by lifting. It was case of moving the stirrup bar. Are the rubs consistent with more jumping?

The fitter is the person who should be able to resolve. How long have you owned the saddle?
 
I'm going to ask the question no one els has! Please don't bite me.

Have you thought about spending the money on getting a treed saddle fitted professionally?

Treeless sometimes just don't work for some horses and riders. I'm finding this at the moment. With my last boy I had a trekker talent, went like a dream, no issues at all but with my current mare isn't a different story, I don't feel right in the treeless and she wasn't happy with it. There are pressure spots, slipping.

The money that I was planning to spend on treeless saddles to fit her (as it was pointed out to my by a friend) would be better spent on a decent treed saddle which could be fitted to her, reflocked and monitored by a reputable saddler.

Just a few thoughts, there may be a reason you can't have treed that I missed.
 
Just wondered what your horse's behaviour is like when tacking up, mounting and riding? I don't have any experience with treeless, but I now understand if there are fitting issues depending on my very sensitive boy's behaviour. I learnt the hard way. Just wondered if the rubbing is causing any discomfort to your horse?
 
It's not that the withers are far back, but they are high and they go beyond the girth groove. I suspect that means the saddle is sat forwards on the wither and thus it will be higher at the front than the back. This will cause tr saddle to tip backwards - I wonder if shimming at the back will help to reduce it?
 
I can guess what saddle it is causing that kind of damage....

If I were you, I would be ringing the head office and demanding that they send someone else out to fit it - you have spent a LOT of money with this company. Failing that, they should refund you completely. I don't think continuing to ride is good advice particularly.

I'm inclined to agree with popularfurball - I think an anatomical girth and rear shims would improve the fit.

xxx
 
The saddle was proffesionally fitted, I have spent £2500 on it :-( Dont get me wrong the fitter is lovely and seems to know her stuff, i just never expected rubs like this as didnt have a problem with last treeless or my Ideal saddle. I bought this particular saddle as i liked the concept, my mare is young and only backed a year so is constantly changing shape..i had hoped this was the perfect saddle..i wouldnt expect this of any saddle, treed or treeless to be honest, esp after what ive spent.

shockblue said:
I'm going to ask the question no one els has! Please don't bite me.

Have you thought about spending the money on getting a treed saddle fitted professionally?

Treeless sometimes just don't work for some horses and riders. I'm finding this at the moment. With my last boy I had a trekker talent, went like a dream, no issues at all but with my current mare isn't a different story, I don't feel right in the treeless and she wasn't happy with it. There are pressure spots, slipping.

The money that I was planning to spend on treeless saddles to fit her (as it was pointed out to my by a friend) would be better spent on a decent treed saddle which could be fitted to her, reflocked and monitored by a reputable saddler.

Just a few thoughts, there may be a reason you can't have treed that I missed.
Click to expand...
 
I don't feel the withers are necessarily high compared to some thoroughbreds, the reason they look high is because there is no muscle. You can clearly see the spine in the first photo which also lacks muscle and covering.
It is possible that the saddle is rubbing as sitting on a horse in soft condition, depending on work doing now this will improve with spring grass and some weight.
It could just be this is not the saddle for you, regardless of the price spent. Not all treeless saddles fit all horses.
As someone said you should be able to get a refund if you are really not happy. If the horse is showing signs they are not happy as well then it could be worth not using and building up the muscle tone first.
 
I have had three treeless saddles. The first rubbed out the hair at the back. The second gave him a raised lump under the stirrup leather area and the third gave him a puffy wither on one side (my own fault - he had lost a bit of condition and I had the wide insert when I should have had the medium), but also scuffed quite a lot the hair at the back of the saddle.

I still have the third saddle but am riding only in the second hand treed saddle that Poohsmate came and fitted and flocked for me. Wither back to normal size and no more scuffing ..................... am seriously considering selling the treeless.

For us - normal kind of back, a bit of wither I haven't been very successful with treeless. And all of them were certainly middle to top end saddles.

But that is just our experience.
 
ive been using treeless saddles for nearly a decade on my pony now. other than a pad's seam rubbibng out hair at the back (at which point i changed pads!), ive never had anything rub, so i dont think the saddle is right for your horse, unfortunately. if shimming did not help (treeless saddles should always be used with proper shimmed pads to make sure you dont sit right on the spine), i'd cut my losses and try a different style, or possibly treed. a fitting saddle should not rub like this.
 
Agreed nf, the withers are not as high as they could be, but they are still high in comparison to the majority of horses fitted treeless I would suspect. As a result the instinct is to shim at the front due to the height when the likelihood is it needs shimming at the back to stop it tippin back with the padding /wither at the front. It is often forgetting with treeless that the same firing principles occur - spinal clearance and level seat being two of them
 
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