Thoughts?
- Thread starter Cortrasna
- Start date
hmm a de gogue, ok in the right hands but when used ridden they are supposed to be attached to a 2nd set of reins. Surprised PC allowed this?
How experienced was the rider?.. If an older PC member at H or A level ok(ish), a younger less experienced member no and instructor should have removed
That's surprising, even if was very experienced child wouldn't have thought would be allowed at pony club! They are usually very strict on tack at rallies or competitions aren't they? My friend uses one with her horse sometimes but only with her coach in lessons at first to make sure was done properly.
My thoughts are that pony club has changed ALOT since I was a kid of this nonsense is allowed. I could say I'm shocked but really I'm not in all honesty. Disappointed covers it more really.
Gone are the days of competing pony club in a snaffle, martingale and the occasional flash or Pelham, it's all gadgets and gags.
Gone are the days of competing pony club in a snaffle, martingale and the occasional flash or Pelham, it's all gadgets and gags.
Why use a training aid to get the head down with a gag which is an elevating bit? Same nonsense you see all over but you really would expect the PC to put a stop to the use of gadgets and just teach plain good riding.
Used by an experienced rider who knew what they doing, maybe. But by a child at a pony club rally I'm very shocked and as MrC said disappointed. I'm surprised they were allowed to use it. I think the pony club has changed a lot and there is a lot of "quick fix teaching" also think it varies a lot from one PC to another.
For example one pony I know went from a snaffle in a cavesson noseband to a grackle and dutch gag and is now in a Waterford gag. I broke and taught the pony to jump and I never felt he was strong, he was sit on your bum to slow type. Now he's hyped up at just the sight of poles, can't bend or do any decent flatwork, has a 4 beat canter etc. There's kids at my yard who part loan riding school ponies, one's an ancient little 12hh the child has draw reins on it to "make it better a dressage" all ok'd by the YO, makes me sad to see.
For example one pony I know went from a snaffle in a cavesson noseband to a grackle and dutch gag and is now in a Waterford gag. I broke and taught the pony to jump and I never felt he was strong, he was sit on your bum to slow type. Now he's hyped up at just the sight of poles, can't bend or do any decent flatwork, has a 4 beat canter etc. There's kids at my yard who part loan riding school ponies, one's an ancient little 12hh the child has draw reins on it to "make it better a dressage" all ok'd by the YO, makes me sad to see.
Approximately 10 years old and on their 2nd pony - not stunningly good rider N. TBH whatever level or age of child I wouldn't be expecting this to be allowed at pony club.
Being allowed to use the item on a pony at pony club is what shocks me - not a fan of them but if used by a rider who truly knows what they are doing then fair enough their choice.
Yes exactly my thoughts MrC
No the same standard is expected over here in pony club the same as the UK Skib - but perhaps this is the standard these days.
TBh it really did bother me - because it suggests that if they were happy to allow this they are nurturing a culture of "It doesn't work - then put a gadget on it or a more severe bit "
Interestingly in a later picture there is a picture of the pony with a huge state of the art massage pad on him...hmmm I wonder why he needs it - and yes it is his - not just been trialled or anything.
I dislike gadgets generally and I think it is entirely the wrong message for a 10 year old. Occasionally our local PC recommends a stronger bit for a whizzy pony ridden by a slight child and I can see the logic but still don;t think it is a great idea. We tried a pelham with Max but he did not respond well at all to it. It just made Twin 1 rely on the rein instead of finding a better way to relax and re-balance him when he got excited. Plus it made him offer to rear to evade it so it clearly hurt him. She is now learning to slow him using circles, serpentines, her seat, half halts, slowing her rise etc etc. And scaling back his competing as he just gets over-excited and is better trotting/cantering slowly round 50cm courses than flying round 80cm ones. And doing lots of grids so he is forced to slowdown and focus. It's the long-term versus quick fix debate. Max dropped his head nicely in the pelham so Twin 1 was keen to keep it, but her dressage teacher explained it was a false outline and she needed to get him working correctly not just tucking in his nose. But again I think loads of kids like that tucked in look in a pony (personally I hate it!) but PC should know better than to encourage it.
I am in a fret about the horse I ride now. Grace is off work and her temporary replacement is a lovely horse. But said to be "strong" so they have put him in a fiercer bit. The RI did exactly the same when he was said to be too strong in lessons years ago.
I never thought him strong then and I hated the new bit. Same now - I dont really know what a strong bit is for as if he wants to run he only has to toss his head and use his neck muscles and he will whip the reins through my fingers.
I never thought him strong then and I hated the new bit. Same now - I dont really know what a strong bit is for as if he wants to run he only has to toss his head and use his neck muscles and he will whip the reins through my fingers.
I don't know fully what gadgets do what but I don't think this looks necessary? I thought pony club would encourage softness, kindness and doing things in the best way for the horse? I don't think my old YO who did pc would have encouraged this. Anything that looks (to me anyway) like it controls quite harshly and tucks in or restrains heads - well, I don't like and wouldn't want to see used.
they are not bad for lunging in but for being ridden in, instead of the bit going down between the front legs - that is supposed to be attached to a 2nd set of reins. I used mine ridden with a horse who out hacking had a really sharp spin that used to put me on the floor - if he started pratting about then i coud pick up the de gogue rein but the rest of the time it was knotted loose.
I dislike gadgets because I don't think it is possible to release the horse properly when using them. I have heard people argue that because gadgets like side reins ,de gogues etc only come into action when the horse is in the 'wrong shape' then the horse is rewarded for working correctly. But working correctly is very hard work! Especially for an untrained horse with muscles all in the wrong place. It's like a gym instructor asking you to hold a pose and telling you that this is your 'release' just because you weren't being hit over the head or jabbed in the mouth while maintaining it! I can't help but thinking that horses end up very sore when forced to work in an outline using these gadgets. Just think how sore we feel after using untrained muscles intensively. 30 seconds of plank can cause up to 3 days of DOMS agony for people new to it. Why should horses be any different?
ETA a gadget that exclusively acts to stop a dangerous behaviour is different I think. Eg a running martingale to stop a horse throwing his head so high you lose bit control. Or loose grass reins for greedy ponies. I am talking about the gadgets used in schooling not to prevent extreme head/neck movements that the horse just does not need to do at all.
http://www.second-opinion-doc.com/training-aids-for-horses-de-gogue.html
I looked it up as I haven't ever used one.
I can see both sides of this because I am annoying.
The Pony Club actually is the place to teach children about tack and gadgets and what they do and don't do. The gadget in question does appear to be aimed at the accomplished rider who knows what they are doing. However since I have no understanding of what they do, I haven't used any, probably never ridden anything in more than a martingale. I am the rider who definately shouldn't be reaching for something to fix a "problem"
If the pony Club didn't teach this, they grow up into people like me who don't know things.
I get the schooling without gadgets ideal but some riders need a hand and so does the horse, very short term and probably not in the above though. Seeing both sides is annoying
newrider.com