The way forward for Ziggy

Jane&Ziggy

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Apr 30, 2010
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Thank you to everyone who has helped me think things through. I spoke to the vet this morning and we agreed:

  • minimum 4 weeks additional strict movement control (box rest)
  • maximum 10 kg hay/day, no hard feed or sweet treats
  • rather than do additional tests, start Ziggy on Prascend and see if it helps. We'll begin on 1 tablet a day and go down to 0.5 a day later if we can. I have a repeat prescription so I can get the tabs on line in future.
The vet suggests hay soaked for 12 hours, but in my view that just sits the hay in a toxic soup. I plan to soak for about 45 minutes.

I am quite scared about the Prascend looking at the bad effects it has had on horses in tests (colic - worse laminitis - death!), but I know that many of you use it successfully so I hope it goes well with Ziggy. I'll give him his tablet in soaked hay cobs first thing in the morning.

Fingers crossed he comes right with this. He has to, poor boy - I just don't have the facilities to keep him if he's not able to be turned out in future.
 

Jessey

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Sounds like a plan to me, the only thing I would strongly suggest is gradually introducing the Prascend, it seems to help them avoid the veil, start with Half a tab, then do half am and pm and then a full tab :) I really hope it gets him off that plateau and on the road to recovery :)
 
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Bodshi

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I always feel better when I have a plan. I hope Ziggy is ok on the Prascend, a whole tablet a day sounds a lot to start on to me, Raf started on a half and we had to take him off for a break then restart him on a quarter (imagine quartering one of those tiny tablets!) because he had such a bad reaction. He did ok in the end though and is now on one tablet a day and doing well. It’s just the initial reaction that was quite worrying.

Anyway I’m sure you’re working closely with your Vet and he’ll advise you if you have any problems, which hopefully you won’t!

Good luck :)

Oops x posted with Jessie
 
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domane

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I agree with only soaking hay for 45 mins. 12 hours really does remove everything and you'd need to start thinking about supplementing vits & mins with selenium and vitamin E. Also agree with introducing Prascend slowly. On one a day from the outset, Jack ground to a halt. It was heartbreaking to watch so I backtracked and gave him half, twice a day, which made him a lot better.
 

Trewsers

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I started Chloe on prascend not long after we first got her. I followed my vets instructions to give one tablet and it was the most amazing positive start to her treatment, almost like she woke up ! Now I will never know if this was due to her settling in, ie, getting her hooves under the table and all that - or the prascend. But if you wanted to hear a positive story then that is mine. We have had her seven years and regularly get her tested. She is now on one and a half and seems fine and dandy. I know her so very well and would get her re tested asap and her dose adjusted if necessary but so far so good.
I really really hope you can work something out with Ziggy and that it works well for you him being on it. I so understand you needing to be able to turn him out, not everyone has facilities for "special needs" like we do. Atm Storm is in her own specially created paddock maze and (touch wood) it works. Lots and lots of good vibes for you and him. Everything crossed it works.
 

Jessey

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Most vets aren't really aware that gradual introduction helps, mine certainly didn't (either time) and I got away with going straight to full dose straight away, but given so many suffer the veil and it's such a simple thing to do it seems crazy not to do it and with hindsight I would if I were ever in the position of doing it again :)
 

Trewsers

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Most vets aren't really aware that gradual introduction helps, mine certainly didn't (either time) and I got away with going straight to full dose straight away, but given so many suffer the veil and it's such a simple thing to do it seems crazy not to do it and with hindsight I would if I were ever in the position of doing it again :)

Yeah I think maybe if Storm ever tests positive for needing it, we will split in half am and pm. Just to be on the safe side, for her sake really. I guess it was a time when I just blindly followed advice - I could have just been lucky really with Chloe taking it so well.
 
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Jane&Ziggy

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Most vets aren't really aware that gradual introduction helps, mine certainly didn't (either time) and I got away with going straight to full dose straight away, but given so many suffer the veil and it's such a simple thing to do it seems crazy not to do it and with hindsight I would if I were ever in the position of doing it again :)

What is "the veil"? It sounds horrid!
 

MrC

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Pill cutters are a couple of quid and save a lot of hassle and a very dopes and unhappy pony for a good few weeks. I had to take Kia off and restart due to the fact he stopped eating altogether admen soent his time standing looking miserable in the field. I’d give 1/4 morn and night for three weeks then 1/5 morn and 1/4 at night for the three weeks then half and half. Will save slot of hassle :)
 
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KP nut

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No advice as not something I have ever come across but I really hope it helps poor Ziggy. Hugs to you both xx
 

Bodshi

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What is "the veil"? It sounds horrid!

It is horrid and quite upsetting imo. Raf didn't completely go off his feed (which is supposed to be one of the main symptoms) but he got so depressed and lethargic. He stood in his stable with his head lowered and had no interest in anything. he looked terrible and I really thought I was going to lose him. Thankfully after the vet advised me to take him off and then restart the Prascend at a lower dose he picked up and although it took a few months he came back to normal eventually. I also got a supplement that @Jessey mentioned, the name of which I can't remember again! He did start to improve as soon as I started giving the supplement, but I can't honestly say whether it was the supplement or just getting used to the Prascend, although my gut feeling is that the supplement helped.
 

carthorse

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Serious side effects are rare, and probably hard to attribute purely to Prascend since they are often symptoms of PPID or a risk of box rest. I'm not saying they aren't real, but you do need to take a good look at them & balance risks & benefits. I think putting him on it is a good plan, but unless matters are desperate I'd talk to the vet about starting him on half a tablet.

I think going on box rest again is wise. While I wouldn't soak hay for 12 hours in this heat I would be looking at at least a couple of hours & then rinsing well & adding in a low calorie balancer so he has everything he needs to grow strong healthy hooves & generally support his health.
 
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Jessey

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The veil is the name commonly used to describe the collected side effects of prascend, like going off (bucket) food, depression, lack of energy. It happens generally just while the body adjusts to the newly controlled hormones. It was APF supplement that I'd read about and suggested when @Bodshi was struggling with Raf, Dr kellon believes it to be 100% effective at eliminating the veil.
 
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domane

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Yes, Jack was like Raf, but in a field. Just stood like a statue for ages, with his head lowered and eyes half closed....totally "away with the fairies" and not interested in eating anything, not even grass.
 

Bodshi

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I've just found an old thread that I started when I was really upset about Raf (and then he got better lol). It's funny how you forget - apparently when I upped his dose to half a tablet following his break, he went downhill again and it was after I'd started the APF that he perked up. There are other useful suggestions on the thread too: https://www.newrider.com/threads/ppid-breaking-my-heart.247200/

It was actually lovely to revisit so many positive and supportive comments from other members, what a lovely place to be is this :)
 

joellie

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Marley had what I would call nervous energy when he got his full dose in one go, made riding horrible and scary :eek: I split his dose into half in the morning and half in the evening and he is so much better, still slightly spooky but nowhere as bad as he was.:)
 
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Jane&Ziggy

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Ziggy is taking his Prascend fine in a bucket of softened hay cobs. I'm not sure I will keep him on it, because after 1 day he was more sore on his right fore, and today he is also sore on his left! But the little bugger let himself out twice (he is now behind locked gates) so the grass may be to blame. Otherwise he is perfectly well after 2 half tablets - calling to me, yawning, wandering about and nibbling the back of my neck while I am mucking out.

Those of you who have used APF, @Bodshi, @Jessey, can you let me know the dosage? My herbalist friend says it's an excellent formulation but expensive - she thinks she can put together a cheaper alternative for me. If he's going to stay on the Prascend.
 

Jessey

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I haven't personally used it, just read about it, the cost is off putting but if you find a cheaper alternative I'd be interested to hear about it :)
 
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