Which is why I said it needs to be written down.
Or at least bring in scales then it's simple.
The new dressage 20% weight rule, and other competitions
- Thread starter newforest
- Start date
Or at least bring in scales then it's simple.
Oh I thought you were saying the stewards don't have common sense so needs to be written down for their sake! sorry
No It needs to written down so everyone knows what's what.
Else as you days you get people disagreeing, arguing.
The only time I saw the person at the ringside query a rider was over a little girl on a 14.2hh, they felt the horse was too big. But having seen her compete before I knew the horse was 20 and one of those kind after the rider type. Not once did I see the same concern over the rider being too big though. The complaints were ignored and they allowed them to continue, the horse to refuse and eventually they fell off. It was a car crash!
Weight plays an issue for sure, but we also owe it to our horses to make sure we fit our tack!
Ive very heavily cropped this to hopefully make it unidentifiable, but whilst this is a substantial horse carrying the rider in kit that fits them like this is probably worse than a larger rider in a saddle that fits them! Doesnt much matter if it fita the horse well if its not being 'used as intended'!
And my 16hh short coupled horse weighs in at about 630kg. There is no way he should be expected to carry 20% of his weight.
Ive very heavily cropped this to hopefully make it unidentifiable, but whilst this is a substantial horse carrying the rider in kit that fits them like this is probably worse than a larger rider in a saddle that fits them! Doesnt much matter if it fita the horse well if its not being 'used as intended'!
And my 16hh short coupled horse weighs in at about 630kg. There is no way he should be expected to carry 20% of his weight.
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Just thought I would drop this here, another study into weight on horses - this one showed up to 25% increase had no physical impact
www.mdpi.com
Increased Rider Weight Did Not Induce Changes in Behavior and Physiological Parameters in Horses
Recent studies have reported significant alterations in horse physiological and gait parameters when exposed to increased rider weight during moderate to high intensity exercise. This study aimed to evaluate the effect of increased rider weight (+15% and +25% of the regular rider’s bodyweight)...
www.mdpi.com
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This study increased rider weight by 15% and 25% on horses where the rider weight ratios were kept between 15% and 23%. This was not a study where horse rider combinations were 25% (or over). I didn't read the actual conditions set (type of horses, experience level of rider, condition (fit vs fat but it did note low intensity). I stopped at this
"We conclude that increasing the weight of the regular rider by 15% and 25% did not result in significant short-term alterations in the measured parameters. Maximum rider:horse weight ratios were 15–23% and the exercise intensity was relatively low; thus the results should not be extrapolated."
"We conclude that increasing the weight of the regular rider by 15% and 25% did not result in significant short-term alterations in the measured parameters. Maximum rider:horse weight ratios were 15–23% and the exercise intensity was relatively low; thus the results should not be extrapolated."
I get why they do studies but we don't really need them with common sense do we?
If a person is carrying 20% more than their ideal body weight, it will influence that body at some point.
So if a horse carries more than 20% of their weight from a rider it's going to do the same thing.
These studies all seem to be short term, but it's the longterm implications surely.
If a person is carrying 20% more than their ideal body weight, it will influence that body at some point.
So if a horse carries more than 20% of their weight from a rider it's going to do the same thing.
These studies all seem to be short term, but it's the longterm implications surely.
True, but the question becomes what is fair and what are the parameters as well as bias/objectivity of those implementing.
For the showing world though the weight of mine is acceptable, it's not to me or the vet. She's over weight.
Say you had this example, a show horse weighing in at 600kg that should be 500kg. Rider looks ok on it BUT if you say max weight it should carry is 100kg, ie 20% of ideal body weight, then do you say it's already carrying that and so shouldn't be ridden? And how on earth do you prove it should be 500kg? Or do you say the overweight horse is actually ok to carry 120kg ie 20% of actual weight?
So much rides on some of these classes in terms of the horses value and the producers reputation, there'd be hell to pay. And would any vet or steward stand up to the big names, so do you end up with double standards?
The thing is I do agree that there are riders out there who are too heavy for their horses, but I don't see how these rules would stop them doing anything except maybe competing at venues where they know checks are made. I do think it would end up having a negative impact on other riders though, ones who may be absolutely fine on their horses but because of body shape would be constantly pulled up and checked and start becoming paranoid about their size as a result. And as we've said before not all 500kg horses have the same weight carrying ability anyway!
I have only come across this one rider that's looks to be over the 20% of the horse she's on. The horse looks unhappy in most of the footage, ears back, the odd cow kick.
She would benefit from a different saddle, as it looks like it's not supporting her thigh. Though as she's at a show I don't know if she's riding shorter than usual. And white jodphurs are never going to do you any favours so I would switch out to cream, beige or even canary with a blue jacket.
Saying this, just because she looks like she's over the percentage, doesn't mean she is.
She would benefit from a different saddle, as it looks like it's not supporting her thigh. Though as she's at a show I don't know if she's riding shorter than usual. And white jodphurs are never going to do you any favours so I would switch out to cream, beige or even canary with a blue jacket.
Saying this, just because she looks like she's over the percentage, doesn't mean she is.
If that picture is a true representation of the rider and the horse was clearly unhappy then yes the organisers should say something, but I still don't see the need (or indeed how to apply) for a 20% rule. A simple "I'm sorry but we feel your horse is unhappy carrying you so we won't allow you to compete here today and will refund your entry fees" would be sufficient. Is it so very different from pulling up an entrant whose horse is lame?
No its not.
Is it because nobody wants to be responsible for telling the rider?
I have had stewards not want to say anything.
So, is the 20% just a starting point.
I have to say this is just competitions. What someone chooses to do with their horse away from venues won't actually change will it.
If it's about adults riding the first ridden ponies before the class, then say no adults to school the ponies.
I wouldn't want to see only the named competitor to ride, because I used to ride at shows and I wasn't always in the ring.
I think there needs to be a line that is stated that is not crossed. Yes that line would be very hard to pin point. Because a rough opinion would not work. We all know everyone has different opinions. So someone saying “we feel that” would and could be interpreted by different people as different things. The rider could say along the lines of that is your opinion and I feel it is wrong.
I have sat beside dressage judges who have been in a difficult situation where a horse has not been right. But taking the step to getting out and stopping the rider hasn’t happened. The most they have been able to say is at the end of the test is along the line your horse took some unlevel steps. Twice I have seen this happen and twice the rider has argued that point.
I have sat beside dressage judges who have been in a difficult situation where a horse has not been right. But taking the step to getting out and stopping the rider hasn’t happened. The most they have been able to say is at the end of the test is along the line your horse took some unlevel steps. Twice I have seen this happen and twice the rider has argued that point.
I spoke to the vet about this ruling and they said it's going to be a nightmare to enforce because you have so many different breed societies, and unaffiliated and affiliated rule books.
And whose job is it actually going to be. The vet/farrier on site will be the one who can say if a horse is lame, I don't know if dressage venues have an on call vet and farrier like shows do.
I once had someone who used to work for whw tell me they were going to report me for having the cob so overweight. Please do we can chat about it.
They were actually on private property visiting at the time and had they started with asking me about her instead of launching into reporting me I would have been more receptive. That's going to be part of the issue, people will feel being told they are unsuitable at a venue by someone who doesn't know them, rude. As I said being told you are overweight for your horse the person will feel attacked.
Not everyone can see or feel if a horse is unlevel. It's just those five minutes where it was noted, whereas they may have looked fine in the warm up.
And whose job is it actually going to be. The vet/farrier on site will be the one who can say if a horse is lame, I don't know if dressage venues have an on call vet and farrier like shows do.
I once had someone who used to work for whw tell me they were going to report me for having the cob so overweight. Please do we can chat about it.
They were actually on private property visiting at the time and had they started with asking me about her instead of launching into reporting me I would have been more receptive. That's going to be part of the issue, people will feel being told they are unsuitable at a venue by someone who doesn't know them, rude. As I said being told you are overweight for your horse the person will feel attacked.
Not everyone can see or feel if a horse is unlevel. It's just those five minutes where it was noted, whereas they may have looked fine in the warm up.
Surely the weight issue they won't wait for the horse to show as lame before pulling people, its meant as a preventative isn't it? Every horse that's lame should be pulled at any competition, regardless if the issue is rider weight or something else.
Lameness is separate, but at the moment is the only thing a horse can be pulled up for.
newrider.com