Sweat patches under treeless saddles?

juliecwuk

juliecwuk

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Mar 2, 2006
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Can someone enlighten me about sweat patches under saddles? Lol

Does a sweat patch indicate areas where there's no pressure...hence ability to sweat and the sweat remaining there after a ride?

What about a dry bit amongst a sweat patch? Does that indicate pressure?
 
An even sweat patch means that there is contact there, but it's not pressure.

An area without sweat can sometimes mean theres no pressure there at all, or theres lots of pressure.
 
If you have a uniform area of sweat ie front to back shape of the saddle panel then that's OK - however, if it's interrupted by an area which is dry then you would need to look very closely to see if there was a link to pressure.

If the skin is compressed down for a longer period then the sweat glands can't work properly.... well, this is what I am led to believe. It seems to be the case from my experience as well.

If you have any pics then post 'em up!
 
Great thanks! Unfortunately in wasn't clever enough to take pics!! I will next time!

Basically after an average ride we have very little in the way of sweat patches-we don't really do enough for her to get a sweat really. But we would usually have a bit of sweat at the back if the saddle.

But the last two rides have been longer with lots of fast work. Last night I took her saddle off and there was basically sweat all over except to spine...and a dry patch under the stirrup bars. To me this clearly indicates too much pressure under the stirrup bars. Now yesterday I was doing a lot of half seat cantering...obviously my weight would be in the stirrups rather than the seat - I usually only ever sit in canter.

So my thoughts r....buy a new saddle LOL don't tell the hubby!! Or keep my weight in the saddle rather than half seat (but is this really practical all the time?!)

Ok so 'if' I buy new saddle....she never really like treed saddles that's why we settled with the Fhoenix - which has really served us well but maybe we are doing more work now and it's maybe not suiting us as much anymore?? Would we gave the same issues with a solution saddle?? I can borrow a treed for our next hack to see if sweat patches are more even!!
 
I know of a couple of people now who have had horrendous problems with stirrup bar pressure with Fhoenix saddles. I think its like everything else - no matter what the sales pitch is, not every saddle will work for every horse.

I'll pm you details of one of the folk - I think she would have some scary photos to show you!
 
Julie, apologies - dont want to hijack your thread but as we both have the same saddle Im going to presume we both have the same issue in the same place!

We ride with a Haf pad underneath and she shows no signs of reluctance/not girthy etc - in fact we are gong along better than ever.

I will also add that we have had this saddle a couple of months now and have ridden quite a few hours in it. Rosie had her back done a couple of weeks ago and had something 'out' but it was further back than this patch (a handwidth behind) and back lady said she showed no signs of tenderness/stiffness etc anywhere else and she didnt beleive there was any problems with her saddle (I had specifically asked her as was also a bit concerned by these patches).

Heres where we have a consistant, very clearly delineated dry patch - even on both sides.

Any thoughts? Is your dry areas in the same place?
 

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I'd be concerned about dry patches under the stirrup bar area too, especially if it's directly related to a lot of trotting and forward seat work. This is one area where treeless can and does fall down as it's pretty hard to overcome the laws of physics and spread a point load over a larger area without any rigid components in the structure. Most saddles keep it to an acceptable level by being quite thick, or stiff, or using a lot of padding. It's the same reason dressage type billets are almost universal, as they allow the girth pressure to be distributed across the whole saddle from the bottom rather than half way up.
 
Agree with Yann and SM here.

There may be other tell tale signs that all is not as it should be. Subtle postural changes in the horse often result in a baggy looking belly and the over development of the muscle under the neck. You can get this for other reasons also, however, as a pressure area may not be a fixed constant like you might see with a girthed up treed saddle (assuming a fit issue), often horses will put up with it and make slight changes in posture to compensate. If you have a stoic horse then you might never realise that there is a problem.

For what it costs - there are two affordable diagnostics available. One is the Port Lewis pad. Hop on this and ride for 10 mins in forward seat. That'll tell you if you have a problem or not. The other is thermal imaging. There can be no argument with the results from this for any kind of saddle fit issue!
 
OK we've established there may be a problem with dry patches being either one of several or the only visible symptom.
So..... whats the potential answers? Is there a fix that doesnt involve changing the saddle? I really dont want to if I dont HAVE to! I really like it :frown: My Haf pad needs replacing anyway!
 
This is ours - swas solid damp/wet apart from a line on spine and the seam of haf in the middle. Thankfully (of sorts!) I have a vvv fussy pony to saddle. The libra is the smallest I could use, but still large on her, but the haf then looks too big - you can see by photo underneath that the haf goes too far back on her - and too far forward! But saddle doesnt overlap her shoulder. I wanted to upgrade to a fhoenix... maybe I wont :giggle:

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And there's nothing wrong with this ;) No fixed tree to cause a problem with length! No different from using a thick blanket.

popularfurball said:
This is ours - swas solid damp/wet apart from a line on spine and the seam of haf in the middle. Thankfully (of sorts!) I have a vvv fussy pony to saddle. The libra is the smallest I could use, but still large on her, but the haf then looks too big - you can see by photo underneath that the haf goes too far back on her - and too far forward! But saddle doesnt overlap her shoulder. I wanted to upgrade to a fhoenix... maybe I wont :giggle:

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IMO, if you have a problem like this then no pad will sort it out. Princess and the pea scenario... Where there's pressure, there will always be pressure.

You 'might' need to look for something which suits you, your horse and your type of riding activity better.

annareeves0 said:
OK we've established there may be a problem with dry patches being either one of several or the only visible symptom.
So..... whats the potential answers? Is there a fix that doesnt involve changing the saddle? I really dont want to if I dont HAVE to! I really like it :frown: My Haf pad needs replacing anyway!
Click to expand...
 
PFB our sweat patches look similar to yours..phew. was starting to get worried then.

I might take some pics tonight, if i get him sweating enough :wink:

What puzzled me was last night he sweated loads and when i took his saddle of some of the sweat had turned into blackish marks which was quite tough to brush out. Is it just really dried on sweat???
 
I get the balck marks at the edges of the pad and on the spine - I think because there is no pressure there, the skin gets a good de-scurfing and it gets pushed out ti where there is no pressure!
 
ok thanks everyone!

SM, the link you sent me wouldnt work, but i think i know the one you mean as i have seen the pics before i purchased the Fhoenix. I must admit it did worry me...but....for the type of riding i have been doing i really didnt forsee us having those issues, and up until now i believe we havent (although the pressure or potential for pressure must have always been there).

In all honesty Moet has always gone much better in the Fhoenix than the Ghost treeless or the treed saddles before that. She is very sensitive and was really girthy with the Ghost and did buck with the treed. We have had some bucking lately but it is linked to the schooling and the left rein and her lack of forwardness in the school, i dont really think its related to the saddle...but who knows now!!

Now i have a dilemma though, if the type of work we are likely to be doing is faster and therefore more pressure in the stirrups then i will change the saddle. I do hope to be doing more hacks like that too.

So what are my options? keep going in the saddle until i 'see' visible signs?! (dont fancy doing that really), buy a new saddle...if so where on earth do i start?!? i really like the position of the stirrup bars being a bit further forward on the Fhoenix....can i get that on any treed GP?! the other thought was a Solution Saddle...is that going to have the same effect as the fhoenix potentially?!

oh man i am so confused and ****ed off that i am now having saddle dilemmas again this year!!

PFB - what kind of hacking do you do generally? ie is it more walking than anything? (which is what our hacks have been up until recently)
 
Those sweat patches were from a 1hr hack of mostly trot in january. lots of hills so lots of forward seat for the up hills.

she isnt yet fit enough to do a decent speed hack - can just about make one lap of school in trot lol
 
Anna and Julie, I believe you can get suber pad type inserts for the Fhoenix that help to spread the pressure - might be worth an investigation.

It would appear (friend has done some extensive research now) that it can definately be a problem with more work in 2 point seat (ie faster, longer hacks or rides). It seems to occur when the mileage is upped and the work is speeded up. It can also be an issue with a heavier rider.

Apparently, for work like that, you are better heading for something like the Freeform which is used extensively by both the American and Italian endurance teams.
 
My advice if your were to try this route would without a doubt be, get a Port Lewis pad/thermalsl to verify that it's fixed your problem! Don't just do because someone said it'd work....!

Skippys Mum said:
Anna and Julie, I believe you can get suber pad type inserts for the Fhoenix that help to spread the pressure - might be worth an investigation.
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