Stay behind others when hacking

[piebaldrider]

I have many many problems i would like to ask about but if i am very keen to see what views people have on this subject.

How do i begin training my horse to stay behind and not get worked up when the rest of the group trot or canter off in front of him?
Any ideas how to start , it seems so mean to ask him to do this when he's only 6 and wants to go but in order for everyone to be safe i want him to learn this.

 

[KAB]

I have many many problems i would like to ask about but if i am very keen to see what views people have on this subject.

How do i begin training my horse to stay behind and not get worked up when the rest of the group trot or canter off in front of him?
Any ideas how to start , it seems so mean to ask him to do this when he's only 6 and wants to go but in order for everyone to be safe i want him to learn this.

I would be interested to know this too. Thats how i ended up falling off and breaking a bone in my spine. The other one canter, so he had to go too....there was no stopping him! Must be a bit like training dogs...getting them to stay as you have thrown the ball for them then to go and fetch.

 

[Mehitabel]

you need to break it down into tiny steps. start by halting for a few seconds while thhey are walking, then walk on and let him catch up in a faster walk. gradually increase the time, always lots of praise and going very slowly so that he never thinks 'aah, where are thy' and never let him lose sight of them to start with. also get him going out alone, so being n his own is no big deal. then when they trot, just wait a few strides before asking him to trot on, and again gradually increase the time, keeping it calm and lots of praise.

 

[KAB]

Thanks for that advice....mine is 7yrs and is not used to going out alone, its all very green to him - so i guess the more i try and go out alone the better he will then get when being out with others. Thanks!

 

[piebaldrider]

Thanks i will give it a go, i know its going to take a long time but i feel it's worth the effort.

How many of us have been out when the horse in front took of at gallop ( which i don't do) only to have you horse think Ye hAA this is great off we go and gallop off after them with no hope of stopping.

 

[Mehitabel]

yes, it's definitely worth the effort - a horse who will continue to listen to you in a situation like that is immensely valuable. what you're aiming to do really is reinforce 'i in charge, you change pace when i say so and not just when you fancy - you're primarily with me, not with the other horses' and keeping the horse's focus on you, not the herd.

 

[Skib]

Like Mehitabel says.
But you need the co-operation of the other riders or rider. In walk first and then in trot. Allow the other rider to go ahead thirty yards or so. Then you catch up, but dont stop, continue till you are thrity yards ahead.
I do this exercise now and then to make sure my RS horse is going independently of my escort's horse.

However with a large group and canter, I would say the problem is a bit different. Horse's are herd animals and riders are not supposed to allow their horses to canter in the proximity of other horses.

Even the calmest RS horse may take off if the main group canter away. I have had this happen to me on a hack up in Scotland. And this would be particularly so if they were heading in the homeward direction. You might need to take some additional measures?
It is not something I have tried, but if I were asked to, I would probably turn my horse in the other direction and walk a good way off from the group?

I would be interested in what others suggest. And to know whether the NH trainers would expect this of their horses?

If so, I will accept the challenge and try it on the mare I ride. But I know that an RI once tried to stop her rushing off and she did a lot of bucking instead in protest.

 

[Mehitabel]

school horses are a bit of a different matter. we don't allow our riders to hold back in a group, we want them to stay together. if it goes wrong, and they try to hold them back and make them go slower but are unable to, you then get the pony zooming up behind the others and often they don't stop in time, or may upset the ones they are coming up behind.

i want our hacking riders to have enough control to stop the horses getting close enough that they feel crowded and kick, and to be able to stop as a group without a pileup, but realistically on a horse who may have 8 riders in a week (ours work a max of 8 hours a week), and who they may only ride once a month or less, i don't expect them to have that much influence that they can make the horse trot calmly behind others who are cantering. also school horses are used to being in a group, often not used to going anywhere alone or being alone outside the schoool in a private lesson context, so that makes it harder as well. they're often not educated in the right way to make it a fair demand.

i'd expect any of our school horses to do it for me or another member of staff, who they know and have a close relationship with, and they often have to if, for instance we are taking out a mixed ride, we will have an escort, then the ones who canter, then another escort, then the ones who trot only. but i wouldn't expect the majority of our clients to be able to make them do it, and given our situation with the work our ponies do and what they are used to being asked, i'd be cross if someone tried.
of course, other schools work differently and train the ponies in different ways, but for our purposes it's not something we ask.

 

[Skib]

Thank you Mehitabel. That makes perfect sense.

 

[ongo247]

i wouldn't hold your horse back, it'll just get more wound up.

Try exercises. it's actually really good fun and help make a hack into a 'schooling' hack. - progressively getting harder, here are some ideas.

riding along in a line, start your horse where it is comfortable. you could do rear file trot to the front, your last horse trots passed the others, giving a reasonable space so no one gets kicked and takes up lead, everyone takes turns at being at the front and at the back for a short period of time, not too stressful, when you are experts you can do it in canter etc.

or you could do lead file turn and walk to the back, again, everyone takes a turn.

you could halt in a group and get each horse to trot away a short disance and and walk back, when you are happy with the control you could canter away and trot back, when you have enough control try a steady canter back, you could canter away on one lead, canter back on the other, canter away pop a jump and walk back, use your imagination.

you could walk or trot along as a ride, lead horse halts or walks, the rest pass and horse joins on at the rear.

these are great exersizes for teaching riders to control their horses independantly and brill for teaching horses to go anywhere in a ride, they are only asked to do things for a short period of time and it gives them something else to think about rather than just fixating on the tail in front. we used to use these all the time in the riding school where i worked and this resulted in my horse whom I often used as a lead horse, being a total angel, out on hacks now, he'll go at the front, the back, in the middle, and if our buddies take off, he doesn't go till i tell him he can.

 

[piebaldrider]

That sounds like quite good fun and i would love the opportunity to give it a go but in my current situation it's unlikely.

I moved to the yard i am at now because at the time i was offered a lot of support at a time when i needed it most, my nerves were shattered and i didn't think i would ever ride again.

The people at the yard are all so much more experienced than me most of them regularly event or show. They ride out with me sometimes and try to encourage me but they are not going to want to do much of you suggest as they can already control just about anything they sit on and have no fear of galloping wildly out of control anyway. They don't realy understand my fears but they do try. I could move yards but then i'm worried that he may revert and forget all he has learned and turn into a horse i can't ride.

I have nothing to lose by asking though and who knows they may enjoy it.

 

[Peanut]

I've been teaching my youngster to do this from the start in the hopes that she will become a well mannered horse.

Sometimes we let others trot ahead and she has to walk and we have achieved this in canter but that's quite difficult She also has to be able to go first or last (although she much prefers first). Another thing which I think is good training, is to never allow her to overtake another horse in canter so as not to incite a race - she now knows that if the horse in front breaks their stride, she has to slow right down (a wonderful chance to practice very collected canter ).

 

[ongo247]

you would be surprised, I am also at a yard with experienced riders and super horses, regular competition goers etc, and you would be surprised at how many of them struggle to control their horse cantering more than 3 or 4 in a line, the only difference is that they are probably more confident and either don't mind or enjoy the excitement.

you could try starting off the conversation with something like, I read somewhere that this might be good for my horse, do you mind if we try it, it could be a laugh. when your doing the exercise, do what you are comfortable with and then say, thats too easy for you, you should try this.

when I was working at the riding school, if we were short staffed and sometimes had to take beginners with more experienced ones we gave them different excersizes to do, it was a lot of fun and kept everyone amused, we could also talk the more inexperienced ones through what the others were doing right or wrong, so they were learning from each other too.

see if these experts can canter away on a specified lead, say 50 meters or so, halt, turn around the forehand, canter back with left lead for half the distance, then halt, then walk to canter right lead and see if they can maintain calmness and obedience, not a hope, my b has been doing this for years and if we get out of practice, he'll resist stopping on the way back to his buddies and sometime put it a wee excited buck.

 

[Bebe]

Echo Mehitabels advice.

I started teaching my mare that she could go behind or on her own in small stages. Initially I rode out with one other horse and would get them to pull ahead slightly or drop behind for a couple of minutes, then go back to their original position. Once that was ok I'd ask my mare to pull ahead or drop behind, then return to starting position. If the track we were on went around a tree or there was a suitable route to the side we'd split up and go in different directions whilst staying in sight of each other, gradually increasing the distance until my horse couldn't see the other. It took a while but now my mare will go out alone, in small groups, large groups, split off and take a different route, etc with no fuss.

I did the same thing for getting her used to other horses cantering ahead or behind. She does need a bit of reminding on this one if we don't do it for a while, last night I had to use clicker training to keep her attention on me when the horse we were with trotted ahead (my mare is being walked in-hand only at the minute) but once she remembered her manners she walked nicely on a loose rein.