Saddles & Sweat Patches

[Bodshi]

Well, my new treeless saddle has arrived. I have it on trial for a fortnight - it's a Solution Smart Native (like @ponylover88 has).

I hacked out in it for the first time yesterday and didn't find it as comfortable as my own treed saddle but then I suppose I have to get used to it and I'm really more concerned about Raf's comfort as long as I can learn to ride in it. Anyway, we did a 7 mile training trot and when I removed the saddle Raf was very sweaty underneath. The sweat patches were good - even and with a nice wide channel down his spine - but normally he doesn't sweat much at all. He had also sweated under the girth which didn't surprise me as it's a PC girth with a neoprene backing, whereas he's used to a cord girth.

I didn't know whether the sweating was due to the saddle or the pad - Solution's own treeless pad, a bit like a prolite but it has a quite sticky plasticky side, I think to give it more grip? The pad didn't go directly on Raf's back - I had my half wool numnah underneath. So today I rode in my usual gear under the saddle - a thin numnah, then my Lemieux Pro-Sorb half pad. This combination felt much more comfy to me, although I did also drop my stirrups a hole which seemed to make a much bigger difference to my comfort that it would have done in my own saddle. When I got back Raf was still sweaty underneath, but much less so than yesterday. Still a clean channel down his spine, but not as clean cut or as wide as yesterday.

So why would a change of saddle make him sweat more and is it ok for him to be sweaty? If it was normal for him obviously I wouldn't be concerned but when I know that he doesn't sweat in his treed saddle I find it odd that he does in the treeless and am worried that it must feel hot and uncomfortable. Having said that, if it's a choice between feeling hot or having a sore back I'd go for the feeling hot! Just can't understand why the sweating.

He does seem to go better in the treeless and certainly isn't as girthy already - although I don't know whether that's due to the saddle or the fact that it's a dressage girth.

 

[ponylover88]

I haven't noticed D sweating more in her solution, however I'd be inclined to say he's possibly working over his back better therefore generating more heat? Is this half pad the same as yours? Have you got shims in it? I've got one solution numnah which I rarely use (pic from today demonstrating other pads). I find it quite comfy, but the twist is marginally a touch too wide, however I love how close contact you are to the horse.

 

[newforest]

As you have now dropped a stirrup, I would be inclined to just try the pad that it comes with and see. It could be that the sweating is from too much layering and it not being breathable enough. Also added to you sitting closer to him than you have been some of the sweating could be from your use of seat and how you were sitting.

If mine is sweaty under her saddle she is sweaty in general and warm. If I just had a sweaty saddle and nothing else it would bother me that's its not breathable enough.

Photos would be interesting to see.

 

[Cortrasna]

Slightly off topic as I don't have a treeless saddle, but commenting in relation to saddle pads/cloths in relation to sweating under the saddle. Apologies Bodshi - but it might be relevant I don't know.

Dolly very rarely sweats up she is a very unsweaty beast. But she does almost always sweat under her saddle area, also nice and even with a lovely big wide channel down the middle so I am happy with that. However, since I treated myself to the super duper Schokemohle saddle cloth with the supposedly latest state of the art lining to combat sweat and keep the back cool, when I untack her you can barely even see where the saddle has been on her back, the only evidence of any exertion is around her girth line.

I usually use either Horseware Rambo or Griffin NuuMed saddle cloths, but I have to say it seems very odd not to find a nice sweaty patch where the saddle has been...and the new saddle pad feels dry also? Is this good or bad do you think - i.e where is the sweat going?

 

[Jessey]

Jess sweats evenly in treed or treeless with a wool lined treeless pad. She did sweat a little more before I got the wool one when I had a grippy one which I put a cotton pad under as she hates grippy on her back. Why did you put the half pad under aswell? I can lend you my wool one to try if you would like?

 

[Bodshi]

Is this half pad the same as yours? Have you got shims in it? I've got one solution numnah which I rarely use (pic from today demonstrating other pads).

I've got the Solution dorsal supplement pad, which is the thing like a prolite but with the grippy side. The Solution fitter set me up with this and the half wool numnah but she said I should experiment to find what works for us both. Her set up is what I rode in yesterday when Raf sweated a lot underneath the saddle..

The Lemieux half pad and thin numnah is what I use with my current (treed) saddle. I use this because Raf has muscle wastage from a too narrow previous saddle, and so the saddle fitter (at my request) set me up with a slightly too wide saddle and a system of padding, to allow his back to 'grow into' the saddle. I've done some research on this (and tried other saddles along the way) and was concerned that if he had a saddle to fit his wasted shape his back would never be able to muscle up and fill out under the saddle. So the half pad is shimmable, which is great for under a treeless because I can use it to help get the clearance along his spine.

BTW I love that pic of you and D jumping!

As you have now dropped a stirrup, I would be inclined to just try the pad that it comes with and see. It could be that the sweating is from too much layering and it not being breathable enough. Also added to you sitting closer to him than you have been some of the sweating could be from your use of seat and how you were sitting.

Photos would be interesting to see.

Hiya, it was the pad that the saddle came with that caused the most sweating. I will give it another try though as I do need to keep trying different options. I wonder if it is my proximity to his back that's causing the sweating? Wish I had taken some photos now - I nearly did but then thought nah, who'd be interested!

I usually use either Horseware Rambo or Griffin NuuMed saddle cloths, but I have to say it seems very odd not to find a nice sweaty patch where the saddle has been...and the new saddle pad feels dry also? Is this good or bad do you think - i.e where is the sweat going?

Well, this is what worries me, although I saw it as doesn't sweat/does sweat and although it was a surprise that there was no sweat under his old saddle (I put it down to him being fit, but obviously that wasn't the reason). But if it's possible to have no, or minimal, sweat, why should some set-ups cause a lot of sweating. I'm going to look at those Schokemohle pads, thanks! (although, as I'm guessing they're not cheap OH probably wouldn't thank you!)

Jess sweats evenly in treed or treeless with a wool lined treeless pad. She did sweat a little more before I got the wool one when I had a grippy one which I put a cotton pad under as she hates grippy on her back. Why did you put the half pad under aswell? I can lend you my wool one to try if you would like?

Thanks Jess for your very kind offer. I won't take you up on it yet, I'll do a bit more experimenting first, but I may come back to you on that one! I used the half pad only with my thin cotton numnah, as an alternative to using the Solution dorsal pad with the half wool numnah. The combination of half wool numnah and Solution pad caused a lot of sweating, the thin cotton numnah and half pad (with shims) caused less, but still more than I am used to seeing. I only use the thin numnah under the half pad to keep the half pad clean, as it's a bit of a pain to wash and takes ages to dry.

Which wool lined pad did you get?

 

[newforest]

I would try the first set up without the wool pad, just to see.
The thing is saddles do come with suggested pads, but this won't work on all horses all the time.
If you have muscle wastage you may need more front shim, or just the front shim and no DS. It could be the lack of muscle on the back that's allowing things to sit closer than usual.
Sweat doesn't always mean pressure, but it means it's not breathable. We all sweat somewhere, more so under a rucksack for example.
I know when I had my Solution it was the panels underneath the saddle that mine didn't like. We didn't get to a sweating stage. But I used a large saddle pad by Shires underneath as it was thin cotton.

We love photos on a forum @Bodshi

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

I would say the layering is causing more sweating.

I don't know enough about treeless so just guessing but isn't more of the saddle in contact with the horse?

Ginger is a sweat monster as very thin skinned and fine coat. After a good ride he is completely wet under saddle and he is super fit. Some horses just sweat more than others like humans i guess.

@Cortrasna if i had that saddle cloth i would expect to not see any sweat marks or a least a small amount as it is marketed as sweat wick away. Unless you do a very hard session.

 

[Cortrasna]

Yes I think you are right OBC - it is probably just doing the job it is supposed to do. Trouble is I am used to most equine stuff usually NOT living up to the marketing hype - bit of a bonus that this one obviously does.

 

[eml]

Off topic but I am interested OBC in Ginger's sweating, Fiddley has never raised a bit of moisture even working fast XC for 6 minutes which we put down to his lack of coat ( so fine it is virtually non existant in Summer!). He is superfussy about saddlecloths etc, ( Fairplay or Escadron both with wicking undersides are acceptable) so I wonder if this is the reason!!

 

[Jessey]

Which wool lined pad did you get?

I am useless and cant remember the make and couldn't find a label on it today but I brought it off of @mystiquemalaika perhaps she will remember

 

[mystiquemalaika]

It's a torsion pad,wool.lined,fabric top. They do wool double sided too. Burioni or something like that can never remember how to spell it!

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

, post: 2987139, member: 3057"]Off topic but I am interested OBC in Ginger's sweating, Fiddley has never raised a bit of moisture even working fast XC for 6 minutes which we put down to his lack of coat ( so fine it is virtually non existant in Summer!). He is superfussy about saddlecloths etc, ( Fairplay or Escadron both with wicking undersides are acceptable) so I wonder if this is the reason!![/QUOTE]
interesting ginger is not fussy but can sweat looking at a candle. I dont know if country o birth makes a difference. He was born in the usa under a firey sun lol

 

[newforest]

Mine says no to wool or fleece, but hoping to casually put a wool felt on and hope she won't notice.
Like that's going to happen! Changing my stirrups altered how she felt about how I sat.

Forgot to mention @Bodshi change the girth. I use leather on miss fussy. Next to no sweating.

 

[eml]

Interesting OBC ours are all Irish born, Uk raced so cold climate horses!

 

[Bodshi]

Well I took some pics, not too successfully though. I decided to retrace my steps and start back at the beginning, but as my riding time is so limited at the moment I've only got as far as the first set up and looks like I won't be able to ride again until the weekend - got to make a decision on the saddle by next Tuesday or pay for extra weekly rental so things aren't going to plan!

Anyway, this is Raf's back before saddling, I tried to get a shot of the hollow area behind his wither, but it doesn't show up very well.





This is the first set up - the one that the fitter left me with - half wool numnah and Solution dorsal supplement pad - this is the one that left him very sweaty.



And here with the saddle on top



My wild horse showing his excitable side ... not



Stripped off when we got back, but unfortunately there was no sweat, because I'd been with OH so had only done a 5 mile walk. I'd thought that might be enough to make him sweat a little bit if it was the saddle and pads making him warm, but although he was a bit warm there were no sweat patches to speak of.

Anyway, I'm going to sack that combination because both times I've ridden in it Raf has been exceptionally sluggish. The first time I mentioned it to YO and she said her horse had been the same that day, so just put it down to extra grass following the rain/maybe a playful day in the field etc, but for it to happen a second time, particularly when I've ridden in between in a different combination and he's been fine, seems a bit suspicious. So next time I'll try the thin numnah and sheepskin half pad again - which is what I use under my current saddle - as he went much better in that and it felt a lot softer on my bum as well.

ETA - my horse is filthy, but that's because he is now turned out with not one, but two, friends and he plays and rolls like a normal horse at long last! A new horse came to the yard which we thought might be a suitable friend because it's big and young enough to cope with his bullying ways, but they and the horse in the next paddock kept breaking through the electric fence to join each other, so YO gave up and let them all in together and they're great.

 

[domane]

Gosh, aren't you all lucky with your non-sweaty horses! Albi and Jack have been known to get a sweat on just being led in from the field! Mind you, Albi is already fluffy and shedding hair like mad I'm already considering clipping him!!!

 

[ponylover88]

Have you considered scrapping the woolly numnahs and using a thin cotton numnah with the dsp? That's what I do. I use various numnahs, they're not fixed together.

 

[Bodshi]

Have you considered scrapping the woolly numnahs and using a thin cotton numnah with the dsp? That's what I do. I use various numnahs, they're not fixed together.

I haven't tried that yet, I might give it a go. It was the fitter that suggested the half wool numnah as she said it helps absorb any sweat - wonder if sweating under these saddles is something that has been queried before? Anyway last night I managed to get 20 minutes in the school and, bearing in mind I'm retracing my steps, I rode in the thin numnah and sheepskin half pad. This is the combination I use under the treed saddle in which he doesn't sweat.



He's standing on a slope so back not level ...



The sheepskin half pad is shimmed to provide the clearance off his spine for the treeless

20 minutes in the school wasn't enough to produce any sweating, other than under the girth, but he did go extremely well for him. For a lazy horse he was surprisingly forward and although on a left circle (his problem side) his default reaction was to keep his body straight and almost cross his legs - I'm sure this is probably called falling in or out with the shoulder but I never know which is which - when pushed for a bend with plenty of inside leg he complied nicely, although with lots of munching on the bit. I'm not sure what that meant but he wasn't showing any other signs of discomfort, was nice and soft etc, so hope it isn't a bad thing.

BTW his history is that one of the first signs of his back pain - last December - was that 'refused' to bend on the left rein and although it's improved since then, following physio/exercises/new saddle, he still struggles with the saddle on. Fine in a straight line, just the left bend he has difficulty with. And he's ok in the bareback pad, which is why I thought we'd try treeless.

 

[newforest]

The first picture the set up doesn't look right to me. Unless he is going to be working correctly and lifting his back, the saddle is going to tip you back and create a pressure/sweating. Unless that's just how it's taken as one side looks more tilted that the other.

Run past me again what saddle you have? It has panels underneath? Thats the spinal clearance, you technically shouldn't need anything other than the Solution saddle pad with the optional dorsal strips that velcro on. I realise you have muscle wastage but too much shimming could tip you back, overheat.
Maybe a different Solution pad is the answer, they do make a non wool don't they, I am sure ours was a grippy type.

Do you like the saddle? That helps if it's just a case if pad tweaking.