Right. Help/advice. I needs them.

[Werehorse]

I need some NR help. :help: I've got myself so tied up in knots about the whole situation I can;t think my way through it at all. When reading about this please keep in mind that I'm on the come back from something approaching a nervous breakdown (didn't quite get there!) and have always had a high level of social anxiety... so please don't reproach me for being a compete wuss and not sticking up for my horses best interests.

Right, where to start? I'm really sorry, I think this is going to be really long - get yourself a cup of tea...

It's basically to do with the horses' turnout. Up until when I finished work the yard where turning them out and bringing them in for us. Fine. Except judging by the state of the stables they weren't getting the full 4 hours winter turnout and were often being put in the school instead (fine, if all the other horses were getting the same treatment but they weren't).; However we had little choice because we were both working and couldn't do it ourselves.

Now I'm not working we can basically save £300 a month by me doing all the work and not having to have them on full livery 1 day a week. So this is good.

BUT I am really struggling to manage both the practicalities and the politics of the turnout situation.

Our horses are turned out in a field that is a 5 minute walk from the yard which is fine. But it's quite exposed with no natural or man-made shelter. The field is further divided into smaller paddocks by electric fencing and our pair have their own paddock. The gate to their paddock happens to be at pretty much the lowest point in the entire field and is always quite damp anyway. BUT our horses have decided that they are going to fret at the gateway (run up and down and paw the ground etc) when they think it's time to come in and as such they have made a complete mess of it - even after the recent dry spell they could still sink in up to their knees in parts.

The horses have had this behaviour reinforced because the yard have been bringing them in whenever they are doing it (into a nice warm stable with hay in!); which has made the behaviours worse to the point where I can't turn them out for an hour while I muck out without someone coming and telling me my horses "look ready to come in". Even on nice days and even appropriately rugged on less nice days. When I have managed to get away from the yard before this happens I have come back to find that someone has fetched them in for me.

Obviously the behaviours peaks when there is someone in the field bringing other horses in - and because most of the horses around them are under the control of the yard they come in at lunchtime and sometimes earlier. I have been completely unable to get my horses out early enough in order to get them in before they are wound up by the others coming in... the yard either turnout at 7.30am or the horses they turnout don't get 4 hours basically...

I admit I have totally given up for a time and just put the poor buggers in the school to stretch their legs every day. I hate it, I want my horses to have as much turnout as possible and I hate myself for doing it but I keep getting to the point where I'm on the verge of a panic attack when turning them out and as soon as anyone says they are fretting at the gateway I burst into tears. And it makes it harder to actually go to the yard at all because the indecision about what to do every day freaks me out.

The yard have made it very clear that they do not like the state the field has gotten into. Yet everything we have suggested they could do to help us solve the problem has been dismissed. Move the gateway? They'll just churn up the new spot (I actually think they wouldn't because they come to the side nearest the big field gate... where the paddock gate also happens to be...) Fence of the whole churned up area? They'll just churn up the next bit of field. Move them to a smaller field nearer the yard which is more sheltered and where they won't feel quite so on their own and would help break the habit due to the different location? A flat no, not possible.

Their solution? They'll help me bring them in and out. As if the problem is me not being able to handle them to and from the field... To be honest I think they just want me to get them to bring them in and out all the time again. Which costs us money. And I just think that some individuals just want to be as in control and interfere with things around them as much as possible...

On Friday I got told that they were ready to come in but by the time I got up there they seemed settled again, or at least thinking about being settled again until I appeared of course. So I do think just leaving them to it and sod the field would actually solve the problem long term - once they don't get their behaviour at the gate reinforced by being brought in and given hay.... But it's managing to achieve that without breaking down crying cos someone is pushy about my horses being ready to come in if I'm there or actually ending up with them being brought in when I'm not there.

I have also decided that when I bring them in they will never go straight to their stables - I will put them out in the school for half an hour OR if that isn't possible and they really must go to their stables there will be no hay for them for at least an hour. So coming in is a less positive experience (at this point in time I'd be less stressed out if it took be half an hour to catch them everday! Seriously.)

There's a whole load of detail missing here but I think I've got to the main important points, I think.

I really want my horses to get more turn out even if the damn horses don't actually think they WANT more turnout! :frown:

Has anyone got any advice? Any new perspective? Please be constructive, I feel so fragile about this. :unsure:

 

[nat17]

Firstly, calm yourself down about the situation. You are not alone, I am sure other people have been in this situation but at least you are on here, trying to get help, so well done.

I have a few questions before I say what I would do in this case...

Can you feed hay in the field?

Can they stay out all day/ all night or..24/7?

How big is the paddock?

Have you been there long?

Do you have any other yards you could move too in your area?

 

[Thyme & Me]

I'm so sorry you are in this situation.
It's almost May? Why is turnout still so restricted? Will they move to 'summer' turn out soon?

I guess you have 2 options:
1) Let them be brought ina nd out with all the other horses (ie livery)
Pluses: solves the problem for both you and them. They get more turn-out. You can forget about this.Minus: The expense
2) Sod the field, put a big sign at the yard saying DO NOT BRING MY HORSES IN and face everyone down.
Pluses: They get turn-out, you don't have to freak out about trying to decide because you will know what you are doing, it does not cost extra
Minuses: You have to face everyone down. Including possibly the YO who may not like the state of the field.

You may be able to cope with that better if you remind yourself that YOU are paying for a service, that the horses have a RIGHT to turn-out, that no-one has the right to bring your horses in without permission and that if the YO is bothered about the field she can do something about it, like move you!

The other option is move yards as I would not like 20 hours in per day and knee deep mud anyway, even if you can get it sorted.

 

[Werehorse]

Thank you for the replies. I'll do responding in bits...

Firstly, calm yourself down about the situation. You are not alone, I am sure other people have been in this situation but at least you are on here, trying to get help, so well done.

Thanks - I just feel so guilty about it and am a bit prone to getting myself in a state (have you noticed? :giggle. I actually come across as reasonably sane in real life you know.

I have a few questions before I say what I would do in this case...

Can you feed hay in the field?

I have no idea. I haven't seen any notice to say that you can't... The practcality of doing it might be tricky as it's all electric fence and I wouldn't want them to get a shock from nosing a haynet and touching the electric bit.

Can they stay out all day/ all night or..24/7?

No, only in summer for a couple of months usually.

How big is the paddock?

Erm. 1.5-2 football fields?

Have you been there long?

My OH has had his horse their for 7? years! Mine has been there for 1 and a half years now (as long as I've had her).

Do you have any other yards you could move too in your area?

Not many and none with as good facilities by a long chalk. Plus this yard is 5 minutes walk from our house! (might as well be on the moon when I get myself stressed out about going though for the effort it takes to actually get there some days). However we rent moving yards is an option because it could be reasonably easiy followed by a house move to be closer to a new yard! Extreme but possible.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation.
It's almost May? Why is turnout still so restricted? Will they move to 'summer' turn out soon?

I don't know. They seem quite, erm, concerned about the grazing - the horses are always in the same fields so no field gets a complete break (except ours for the time I completely gave up on turning out).

I guess you have 2 options:
1) Let them be brought ina nd out with all the other horses (ie livery)
Pluses: solves the problem for both you and them. They get more turn-out. You can forget about this.Minus: The expense
2) Sod the field, put a big sign at the yard saying DO NOT BRING MY HORSES IN and face everyone down.
Pluses: They get turn-out, you don't have to freak out about trying to decide because you will know what you are doing, it does not cost extra
Minuses: You have to face everyone down. Including possibly the YO who may not like the state of the field.

You may be able to cope with that better if you remind yourself that YOU are paying for a service, that the horses have a RIGHT to turn-out, that no-one has the right to bring your horses in without permission and that if the YO is bothered about the field she can do something about it, like move you!

The other option is move yards as I would not like 20 hours in per day and knee deep mud anyway, even if you can get it sorted.

I think you've summed up what I see as my options quite well. The second one is most attractive to me. I don't like the yard being in control of my horses turnout because it can be like the thin end of the wedge with certain individuals - they start to tell you how to do everything else as well...

But that involved womaning-the-****-up which I am REALLY struggling to do, even for the sake of the horses which I am finding very disappointing.

The whole customer thing gets so lost in the horse world doesn't it? My OH has basically said to sod the field and do as you say put a notice up and if they ignore the notice that he will come and kick off. But I don't really want to do that yet... Not until my OH is a bit less busy anyway - but by then they'll probably be allowed out more.

I suppose it won't be long until there is more turnout, and my problem might be alleviated but I'm already worrying about next winter and whether I'm going to end up in the same situation.

 

[Thyme & Me]

I get very worked up too. Can't cope with confrontation. I am doing a bit better than usual by saying to myself: "My horses, I can look after them MY way..."
Then I refuse to think about it. Sounds hard but it gets easier with practice. When I find myself having imaginary conversations with people I make myself stop it, when I find myself imagining what people are saying about me I stop myself. When I've had an upsetting encounter I STOP replaying it over and over. I go to the yard, keep my head down and enjoy the horses.

Good luck.

 

[nat17]

Thanks for clearing that up, didn't want to suggest loads of things that you could do that's all...

If it were me I would get up there early tomorrow, get your horses turned out, take some extra white electric tape and just run a length from side to side to section off the muddy area. Then at the time they ususally come in (but not when you want them to come in) take 2 buckets (if allowed) and some hay down to them.

Feed both horses in the field, and put two or four piles of hay out for them to munch on. Then go back to the yard and do your jobs and keep busy until you are ready to fetch them in, ignore anyone saying they are ready to come in and just be doing your jobs.

If you are there, they are less likely to bring your horse in for you, if your horses are content eating hay, they are less likely to be looking like they want to come in. They should learn to settle as they get hay in the field and in the stable, and remember the weather has been bad so they may well be hungry too which does not help. But if they get hay in the field, what makes the stable so good?

In a few weeks I would expect them to stop needing hay as the grass coming through should be enough to occupy them until coming in time.

If I was replying to someone else, who didnt mind confrontation I would say speak to the YO about a joint solution, as the customer, but its not for everyone.

If you have any old tyres, they are good to put in the field to keep hay together. :wink:

 

[Trewsers]

Thanks for clearing that up, didn't want to suggest loads of things that you could do that's all...

If it were me I would get up there early tomorrow, get your horses turned out, take some extra white electric tape and just run a length from side to side to section off the muddy area. Then at the time they ususally come in (but not when you want them to come in) take 2 buckets (if allowed) and some hay down to them.

Feed both horses in the field, and put two or four piles of hay out for them to munch on. Then go back to the yard and do your jobs and keep busy until you are ready to fetch them in, ignore anyone saying they are ready to come in and just be doing your jobs.

If you are there, they are less likely to bring your horse in for you, if your horses are content eating hay, they are less likely to be looking like they want to come in. They should learn to settle as they get hay in the field and in the stable, and remember the weather has been bad so they may well be hungry too which does not help. But if they get hay in the field, what makes the stable so good?

In a few weeks I would expect them to stop needing hay as the grass coming through should be enough to occupy them until coming in time.

If I was replying to someone else, who didnt mind confrontation I would say speak to the YO about a joint solution, as the customer, but its not for everyone.

If you have any old tyres, they are good to put in the field to keep hay together. :wink:

THIS^^^^^^^^^^

Do hope things improve! The above is very good advice.

 

[Werehorse]

Thank you. I'm not sure about taping off the field as yard owner specifically said no to that suggestion. But I may try taking some hay up for them just before or just after the other horses have been brought in. Or an hour before I want to bring them in.

There is plenty of grass in the field though, what with them having so little turnout over winter. Obviously it's only just turning into lovely spring grass though...

My OH has also suggested wearing headphones at the yard so that I can more easily just ignore people. So I might try that as well. I sometimes wish I was the kind of person who could say "look, I don't mean to be rude but I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your opinion or input into how I manage my horses - don't speak to me unless I actually break a yard rule, ok." But I'm not. I find myself saying things like "yes, good point" when I'm actually thinking "wtf did you actually just say that to me for?". *sigh*

So The Plan;

1. Turn them out as early as possible.
2. Don't leave headcollars at the field (just to make it more difficult for someone to bring them in on a whim).
3. Take them hay to occupy them during trigger times.
4. Poo pick before I bring them in (me appearing doesn't mean come in immediately).
5. Give them half an hour in the school, or an hour hayless in the stable when I bring them in. Or groom then ride - that'll put Poppy off! lol!
6. Wear wellies and ignore the state of the field (it is just the gateway area after all, the rest of the field is more than functional).
7. Wear headphones to put people off speaking to me.
8. Stop having imaginary conversations in my head and worrying about people slagging me off etc etc.
9. Remember I'm a customer and OH is a long term customer who has spend thousands and thousands of pounds with these people.
10. Try to relax but also be prepared to stick to my guns.

It's a plan anyway. :unsure:

 

[nat17]

You know I don't even think you have to be rude about it tbh, you could say this...

Other livery: looks like your two are ready to come in
You: well, they can wait the impatient little beggars ha ha

Then go back to your mucking out...

Fair enough on the tape across the wet bit, some times moving them from the gate can help with the obsession of waiting at the gate, if you did it and Hayed them it may help break the cycle for now.

It does sound like you have a good plan though, please let us know how you get on and feel free to moan or stress at us, rather than keeping it to yourself and going over stuff again and again:wink:

 

[eml]

May sound a silly question but why must they stay out for 4 hours. A couple of our horses stand at the gate after about an hour in a 5 acre field (or even less on a wet day) and I see nothing to gain by leaving them standing in mud not grazing rather than relaxing and eating in their stable?

Not giving into yard politics just listening to your horses?

 

[Werehorse]

May sound a silly question but why must they stay out for 4 hours. A couple of our horses stand at the gate after about an hour in a 5 acre field (or even less on a wet day) and I see nothing to gain by leaving them standing in mud not grazing rather than relaxing and eating in their stable?

Not giving into yard politics just listening to your horses?

Because I think it's a habit rather than an actual desire to be inside. They do it as soon as anyone appears in the field even on a lovely, warm day. And on the occasions when I have not gone up immediately someone has told be they are fretting, they are actually settled again (until they spot me at the gate that is).

Plus OH's horse has never had a problem staying out (in fact he has always been difficult to catch! Especially at this time of year) and my mare used to live out 24/7/365 at her old home apart from in the worst weather with no bother.... until the yard had control of their turnout this winter. And now they have developed this habit.

Staying out in open air with fresh grass to eat is better for their health in my opinion. Especially as OH's horse now has quite bad arthritis that get worse when he stands in a lot rather than some gentle walking around the field. And my mare benefits from the fresh air as she gets quite a snotty nose stood in. They might *want* to come in at that moment but they have no perception of the longer term and the benefits to their health from staying out a bit longer. Most 5 year olds would love to eat sweets all day but you wouldn't just let them would you?

If I listened to my horses all the time I'd be taking them too and from the field all day and they'd be twice the size because of all the hard feed I would give them!