Riding History - position and conformation

Skib

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Dec 21, 2003
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OH and I went to the Munnings Exhibition this week. I realise not everyone lives near London, but the catalogue is on line and it would be really nice to have a chat with people who know more.

You can see some of the pics at

http://www.richard-green.com/Sir-Alfred-Munnings-DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=47&tabindex=46&eventid=22258

and using Google search for images, more here https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...fZ0QXsgoHwCg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1040&bih=791

I am hoping some of you might like to comment on the rider's positions - look at the Portrait of Mrs Margaretta Park Frew riding - she is an American with her legs right forward in what we recently discussed as bareback style.

And the effect that rider position had on the ideal conformation in those days? Mehitabel who used to be on NR thought my grandfather's much admired horse was too over-developed at the front but this may have been wanted in those days of chair seat? Or of side saddle?
 
I'm not really knowledgeable enough to comment greatly on the rider positions etc - except to say that the American lady seems to be in a much more acute chair position than the English girl in another portrait.

But what wonderful paintings - I had know about Munnings before but thanks for posting this as it's been a reminder of what a superb artist he was.
 
Yes very interesting to see, I live in N.ireland and often look at photo's of the hunts and the riders especially from the south of ireland all seem to take a very armchair position with their legs pushed very far forward(maybe Contrasna or Gattino could back me up here) :unsure: Now, I go to a riding school once a week for lessons and I know if I rode like that my instructor would blow a fuse lol How times have changed !
 
Interesting too, following the thread on riding on a contact, that both horses are making a nice 'shape' with very little contact on their mouths. They must be good riders even if they do sit with their legs forward. Were horses trained to respond to different pressure points on their bodies then?

Talking of riding position - just been watching racing on the tv and some of those jockeys pushing on for home are standing up in their stirrups, yet their lower leg is flapping back and forth (presumably urging the horse on). What exactly are they balancing on? Are they kneeling on the horse? Something must be keeping their bum in the air, but it's not their feet.
 
That was the old-fashioned hunting seat - nothing to do with Munnings, that's how they rode then. If you read pony stories from the 40s, there's often a wonderful riding instructor, usually Irish or French, who rides with the revolutionary "forward seat" and is scorned by all the other instructors.

Munnings, by the way, was a very unpleasant man. He painted to a formula - you often see the identical horse with a different name, just a slight change of colour or markings. He used to have a groom, who would hold the horse for him in the studio, and the rider would pose sitting on a saddle on a rack ...
One of his best-known paintings is called "Myself, my horse and my wife", which tells you a bit about him...;)

PS if you google for Munnings, you'll see a pic in the 5th row down of a rider on a black or dark bay horse landing over a big hedge and leaning right back. The idea was that if you were leaning back you wouldn't go over the head if the horse stumbled ..
 
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That was the old-fashioned hunting seat - nothing to do with Munnings, that's how they rode then. If you read pony stories from the 40s, there's often a wonderful riding instructor, usually Irish or French, who rides with the revolutionary "forward seat" and is scorned by all the other instructors.

Munnings, by the way, was a very unpleasant man. He painted to a formula - you often see the identical horse with a different name, just a slight change of colour or markings. He used to have a groom, who would hold the horse for him in the studio, and the rider would pose sitting on a saddle on a rack ...
One of his best-known paintings is called "Myself, my horse and my wife", which tells you a bit about him...;)

PS if you google for Munnings, you'll see a pic in the 5th row down of a rider on a black or dark bay horse landing over a big hedge and leaning right back. The idea was that if you were leaning back you wouldn't go over the head if the horse stumbled ..

Oh thats very interesting and yes he sounds quite unpleasant. !
 
The chair seat, long stirrups, legs pushed forward was the usual seat of the period, it was (as has been said earlier) designed for optimum security in hunting and cavalry charges :) If you lean back and stick your legs forward you are actually pretty secure....I have heard it called the "cavalry seat" or the "oh s**t seat" :D

The modern jockey seat is also relatively modern and came over from America around 1stWW period or thereabouts. Before that they had much longer stirrups, but apparently the American jockeys kept winning and so this seat was adopted in racing.

They do seem to be commonly overdeveloped at the front if you look at paintings of that era (or they would probably say ours were overdeveloped at the back :D ) I'm not sure why though - any else know? There was certainly far less emphasis on working from behind which will have made a difference, but they were still working in a contact. Intrigued by that one now!
 
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The people that I work for have lots of old oil paintings hanging in their vast rooms. As Mrs G used to be an avid rider/hunter, there are the inevitable horse paintings dotted around and a couple of them are saddle-less poses. What I noticed is that both of the pics show the horses with white spots around their withers.... classic examples of poorly fitted saddles!!! (how sad am I for noticing :frown:)
 
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