Really depressed need some NR advice. Again.

M

mu0ljk

Guest
I don't know if anyone remembers the thread I did a month ago (ish!) about getting some dressage spurs for Sid. I was advised to get them by my RI because we know he CAN work very well and quite adavnced but he is INCREDIBLY lazy or as my RI said he is very good at conserving his energy!

I borrowed my RI's spurs and the difference was amazing - I can't quite believe the difference in him. He didn't object he just worked. So I did get them. The only thing is is that they are marking him. Yesterday I had a lesson (I don't wear them often - once a week or even less) and again - amazing. But when I got home he was really marked by the spurs. I felt awful. I felt really cruel and ended up in tears. :(

I have been talking to people on my yard and they have said that perhaps I should sell him and look to getting something younger and with a little more energy. That he has been the perfect horse for me but that perhaps now that I am wanting to do more and asking more that I should think about another. :(

YO also reckons that he is stiff behind and that it may be a physical thing rather than a mental thing becasue he is a very genuine horse. I have never really noticed him being stiff and RI said he isn't particularly stiff. But YO sees him in the afternoon when she puts him out after he has been standing in all day. Now the vet is coming out next month anyway to do boosters so I will get him to have a look. On the same topic YO suggested that maybe he needed to be on a bute a day? :(

Somebody else suggested that perhaps the RI is a little unsympathetic towards SId. She certainly does expect them to work and to work to the best of their abilities which is fair enough but I do kinda see where my friend is coming from - RI can be quite tough on both rider and horse at times in her expectations. She refuses to comprimise on the level of work we produce. But after having had a really bad RI she has done wonders for me. There are just too many people - all of whom I respect that have completly opposite views. The guys on the yard for example see him as being a bit of an old plod (but thats all they see of him really - me hacking out) whereas RI sees him as a horse capable of doing an elementary dressage test (horse that is - don't think I am!)

I'm just really stressd out about it all at the moment. The spurs really did work but I'm not going to use them if they are going to mark him and irritate his skin. But then, I DO want to do more and I know that now I have seen how he can go I will never be satisfied with less because I'll know that he can do better in that dressage test for example.

I just don't know what the answer is. :(

<big sigh>

I'm so sorry that this is so long.
 
YOU need to do what is right for YOU!!
If you are happy with your horse then keep him.
 
My appologies but I havent looked at your previous thread.

I would give the spurs a rest for a while if they are hurting him. I dont know whether bute would just disguise an injury. Does he have to be in the stable for a long time if this creates stiffness?

Can you let us know what type of feed he has, his breeding etc.

His way of going is due to the way he is ridden if the spurs have had an affect. Can you explore other ways of asking for more impulsion, seat, voice, energy? Once you can find the aids that he likes you will be able to do them less.
 
Doesnt sound like you want to sell him. How old is he? When our old boy got stiff we cut his work down and put him on cortaflex, and started keeping him in at night in the winter, and he's thriving.
Maybe lunge a little before you ride to work out any stiffness too? And keep him nice and warm in winter. This is all older horse stuff though, I dont know what age he is...

xxx
 
I second Bobbin!

it's between you and your horse what is going on and it is not anyone else's place to suggest you sell him.

How old is he? Is he on any kind of joint supplement? Has he ever had any stress/injuries to hind/back joints that you can think of?

I'm sure you'll try your best to figure this out - you clearly care about him so :)

Chin up - stride on!
 
How old is he? Older horses slow doen just like humans, and can get very stiff just because of their age, but it's always worth getting a vets opinion. As Bobbin said though, do what you feel best with, you know what Sid is comfortable with and what you want from a horse. Hope you get it sorted soon though.
 
It sounds as if there is a bit of friction between your RI and the YO.

Just a couple of points, if he is older standing in all day will make him stiffer does he need to do this? Equally if he is older he may need some suplements which don't have to be bute but can be herbal supporting the joints or providing some anti-inflamatory eg Cortaflex or devils claw.

If your RI believes him capable of Elementary level then he clearly doesn't show stiffness in work. If the spurs are marking him however it is a sign that you are probably turning your legs in too much..tell your RI about the issue so she can correct your use.

Another thing to examine is his diet, some horses are naturally lazy and can do with a bit more 'zing' Most people these days are obsessed with keeping horses calm so you may need to consider something like a competition mix.
 
Just to add to what everyone else has said...
younger does not mean more foward haha. I have seen quite a few young horses a lot lazier then older horses. In fact the most foward going horses i know are older.

That said, If he is really stiff it may just take a while to warm up. Do you ride with a stick?
perhaps give spurs a break or keep them on as a backup.
give your horse a squeez if there is no responce a snappy slap with the stick behind the leg usually a quick sharp stick works pretty well. If you really use it (not doing baby taps) usually they will try to avoid the sting by listening to your leg when you first apply it. If you find the stick doesn't help enough then add the spur but take it off when he listens to it and dont use it to keep him there. Once he goes foward release all your pressure on him and if he slows go to your leg, then a smack then a spur. make him maintain his pace so you dont have to nag him all the time. You shouldn't get marks from using the spurs once in a while. im guessin you were keeping them on him to try to maintain his energy.

joint supplements if he is older and stiffer tend to work wonders. Also make sure his back and saddle are not issues.
 
Thank-you for the replies!

Sid is 16 and is a tbxid. To me he doesn't appear old but he does have a lot of milage on the clock - I know he was used for lots of hunting and some show jumping previously as well as being used as a beginner horse for the last owners.

He is on the 5 star superflex and is on a diet at the moment as he is a bit on the fat side - which I decided obviously wouldn't help him in having a little more impulsion (being fat that is). I spoke to the feed companies and as a result he is on dengie good doer with a helping of oats and a few carrots.

He goes out at night and is in during the day - because of his greedy tendencies he can't be out all the time which is why he comes in during the day.

I've decided not to use the dressage spurs and I think I may try another RI just to get a different perspective really -I do like my RI but it doesn't hurt to go somewhere else once in a while does it?

Jojoba, the thought of selling him at the moment turns my stomach actually! Forgetting the fact that he was given to me and I don't know that I could sell him in all conscience - kinda seems wrong to me! But I think I have developed a strong bond with him.

Bobbin and Odd the friend who suggested selling him was quite tactful and I did kinda ask her opinion...well she asked me if I was ok and then I promptly burst into tears wailing 'I don't know what to dooooo.....' :eek: :rolleyes: So I don't really take offence at that but it is hard when everyone says 'ooh maybe you should do this, or do that, or even, don't do that!' :eek:

Argh! Why do horses always cause us so much grief!! :eek:
 
Jumping for Life, I do ride with a stick and he tends to pretty much ignore it! What I do is when I hack out I don't wear spurs but I do use a stick.
When I school I usually use spurs - this is once or twice a week but if I school twice a week I won't use the dressage spurs twice I will use smaller ones. When I'm in the field I just use a stick again as he tends to think he is out in the huinting field again if the field is a big one!

the vet is coming out next month to give boosters so I am going to get him to give him a once over and see what he suggests.
 
A light is now dawning Some ID and ID crosses are born to conserve energy!!

I have one similar age ex showjumper ID mare but will happily allow rider to hold her head up as she is soooo tired! But if ridden forward and particularly using lots of transitions and flexion becomes a live wire. Put her in front of a jump and serious brakes are required!

They do need to carry a fair amount of weight but I would be happier if he was mine to put him in a paddock with little grass than have him standing in all day.

You may want to ask around and find an RI with experience of this type of horse as they really do 'take the mickey' by appearing lazy unless you work out how to motivate them. Ours goes at her best with a double bridle and spurs but we reserve that for outings to shows!!
 
16 isn't that old. Otto's the same age and there's plenty of forward in him. However, that doesn't mean he isn't lazy sometimes. Could you work with your horse on walk/trot transitions? That always seems to make Otto more eager to work. I have no idea why.
 
eml said:
A light is now dawning Some ID and ID crosses are born to conserve energy!!

I have one similar age ex showjumper ID mare but will happily allow rider to hold her head up as she is soooo tired! But if ridden forward and particularly using lots of transitions and flexion becomes a live wire. Put her in front of a jump and serious brakes are required!

Definately sounds familiar! Sid will also expect me to hold his head up for him if he feels he can't be bothered anymore! However, go cross country or into a large field then he will only stop in a pelham! And he LOVES jumping!

Well I'm going to see him in a minute. But yeah, I will get the vet to take a look and will also try a few different instructers see if we have any improvements!
 
mu0ljk said:
And he LOVES jumping!
Ah Ha! That might be your answer. Ed (Id x TB) does not like to waste energy, particularly when doing flatwork. Pop a fence and he comes alive.
So now when doing flat work I have a jump in the area and pop it occasionally just to keep him motivated.
I would also suggest an oil based suplement, cortaflex and use a grazing muzzle or reduce paddock size withe electric fencing so he can be out longer.
 
I agree with all of previous posters suggestions - I remember your previous post well as he sounds just like my Clydesdale x TB, who finds schooling deathly boring and falls asleep - it is very frustrating especially when you know that they are more than capable of good work if encouraged to put the effort in! Mine is only 6 though!!
The longer turnout on poorer grazing is a good suggestion to ward off stiffness caused by stabling. Dobson and Horral competition mix I have found to be very good for energy, particularly if a scoop or two is fed a couple of hours before work. Mine is now on that and mollased sugar beet (I vary proportions depending on workload) which has definatly helped.

Giving him a break from the school has also helped (though you can of course continue working on similar things while hacking). Interspersing jumps and gridwork has improved his canter transitions. Halt / trot / halt transitions and leg yeilding seem to get him listening more and get him more rounded and less on his forehand. Fast canter down the straight, collecting into a 20m circle, then fast down the straight again is another good one for wakening him up. But if he is in a really ploddy mood in the school, my RI just tends to work on me and use the slow trot to our advantage to do no stirrup work and exercises:( which gives me even more motiviation to waken him up next time!
 
Lucyad said:
But if he is in a really ploddy mood in the school, my RI just tends to work on me and use the slow trot to our advantage to do no stirrup work and exercises:( which gives me even more motiviation to waken him up next time!

God no!! Don't give her ideas!! I hope she doesn't visit this board!! :eek: :eek: ;)

David H - thats a good idea about putting a jump up whilst schooling - that could work.

I think I am also going to ask someone to ride him on the menage this weekend so that I can actually see him move and someone else can see what he is like to ride - although the person I have in mind does prefer nutty tbs! :)

Unfortunately he is in the smallest of the fields already with a little laminitic prone pony. The problem is is that the grass is ex-dairy and rather rich. But he has lost weight!!! So at least something is going right!! ;)
 
newrider.com