Racing

[Orenoko]

I had the unfortunate luck of seeing a clip online of what happened to Sandsend at Cheltenham this week, it broke my heart and sickened me, along with the deaths of the other horses at the festival. I wanted to get the opinions of those on this forum who know and love horses, as it's one thing to read an article or comments on social media, but another to get informed opinions.

I personally can't decide if I agree with the way horses are raced. I know that, on the one hand, they do enjoy their work, and they live like kings with an army of people dedicated to their every need. Having visited a couple of racing yards last summer it's easy to see how well cared for they are. On the other hand, I can't get past the fact that these beautiful animals are used for human entertainment and are sometimes pushed to the point of death. I can't reconcile the two as I don't think any animal should be killed for our entertainment or 'sport'.

I'm not saying abolish the industry and I know that changes have been made in recent years to improve safety, but could there be a happy medium somewhere, where horses aren't raced until they're a bit older, and where they don't run on courses that have that risk of death? I recall hearing an ad for the Grand National last year where it was referred to as "the ultimate test of a horse's bravery", and it really puzzled me as I thought, these horses have no idea what they're going into, they're just doing what they've been trained to do to the best of their ability, and they can't understand the potential danger they face. People within the industry seem to justify it by saying that there will always be a risk involved, and I agree to an extent, as there's a risk every time you get on a horse, but a lot of these risks are, in my opinion, man-made e.g. The size of some jumps, racing horses at a young age before they've finished growing, pushing them too hard.

So, what are your thoughts? Is it fine as it is? Should there be changes? I don't know as much as a lot of people on here so I'm genuinely interested in people's opinions, I'm not just looking for people who might agree with me!

 

[Trewsers]

I honestly don't think I know enough about the whole industry to comment constructively, but I'll be interested to read others opinions.

 

[Orenoko]

I honestly don't think I know enough about the whole industry to comment constructively, but I'll be interested to read others opinions.

I'm coming at it from a relative outsider's perspective Unfortunately on Facebook (and elsewhere) the comments go from one extreme to the other and there's no point trying to make any sense of it!

 

[chunky monkey]

I'm with Trewsers I don't know enough about it to really comment.
Knowing how wet it's been recently, I still won't get my jumps out the shed currently to go jumping my own horse. So I don't know why it is acceptable in the racing industry. The only difference I suppose is that the racecourse spend alot on drainage etc and the course is usually rested in between meets so it's not cut up.
There has been alot on Facebook about it and there are so many nasty snipping comments that the moderators turn off comments. It gets silly and confusing.
I'm undecided though as to whether I agree with it. There are so many fors and againsts.

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

Being the owner of a ex race horse he is a horse that i would never have been able to afford to buy if not for being a failed racer.

Yes they are back young and yes I hate that but I also know that the industry are trying to eliminate the injuries and damage that may be caused through their training.

I watched program with a amazing bit of kit that allowed the horses to train on a track with know rider on its back I will try to find it and link it. Yes this is the high end part of the business but they are trying.

The race courses have permanent grounds men and course is carefully managed on the run up to any event.

There are injuries in every area of horse sport from leisure riders to high end. The problem with racing is that you see a horse break down on tv it looks horrid what you don’t see is the trainers and grooms crying.

I don’t think racing is any worse then backing a sj or dr horse at say four and pushing it up the classes produced to quickly and has to retire at 12 to be used as a companion or gentle hack only.

My lad raced got injured was treated and rehomed he has a whole second career doing a bit of everything with me.

So no to me racing is a passion and then if you get lucky you get own one of these magnificent creatures

 

[Orenoko]

Being the owner of a ex race horse he is a horse that i would never have been able to afford to buy if not for being a failed racer.

Yes they are back young and yes I hate that but I also know that the industry are trying to eliminate the injuries and damage that may be caused through their training.

I watched program with a amazing bit of kit that allowed the horses to train on a track with know rider on its back I will try to find it and link it. Yes this is the high end part of the business but they are trying.

The race courses have permanent grounds men and course is carefully managed on the run up to any event.

There are injuries in every area of horse sport from leisure riders to high end. The problem with racing is that you see a horse break down on tv it looks horrid what you don’t see is the trainers and grooms crying.

I don’t think racing is any worse then backing a sj or dr horse at say four and pushing it up the classes produced to quickly and has to retire at 12 to be used as a companion or gentle hack only.

My lad raced got injured was treated and rehomed he has a whole second career doing a bit of everything with me.

So no to me racing is a passion and then if you get lucky you get own one of these magnificent creatures

It's great to hear the other side of it and that you've been able to find your horse from the racing industry. I know a few people who have ex racers too and they're fab horses. I know it's only a very small proportion of horses who have to be put down because of injury and that for most, every effort is made to rehome. Sometimes I think there are people scaremongering who seem to think any horse who can't race any more is destroyed immediately even if it's healthy.

I agree with @chunky monkey re the condition of the ground, that seems to be one of the main criticisms I've heard. I suppose it could be a case of 'the show must go on' but again, is that fair to a horse that could lose it's life in an incredibly painful way? I don't doubt that everyone in the racing industry loves horses - after all there are easier ways to make money if that's all you're worried about.

I suppose my main issue is that if you, as a human, decide to push yourself to your absolute limit and get severely injured, it's on your own head, and you have the capacity to make that risk assessment for yourself whereas these guys don't. We're always striving to be that bit quicker, or better than before, and I hope that it doesn't lead to a slip in welfare standards.

 

[PePo]

I'm not a huge fan, personally. But I don't think it's black and white.

I think it's great that charities like RoR and studs like Godolphin are doing something to help improve the lucky ones that do get re-homed But theirs far too many that don't for my liking.

Their are good trainers, but their are dreadful trainers too - but you could say that about any discipline and any yards.

However, I'm also not a huge fan of SJ or dressage that seem to have a lot of casualties of started too young - mainly as a result of young horse classes. But there's a local SJ who my trainer works with & I'd happily own a horse that competes for them - but they don't back a horse until 4, often 5.

They also typically back young in America, even for non-competitive horses.

I wouldn't go racing anymore. But, I do go to Hickstead as it's my local event & often go to watch 4* & 3* eventing, where the possibility of a casuslty is high - so maybe I'm hypocritical?

I think it's difficult to put horse welfare first in any high level sport. And where do you draw the line? Pete could slip & fall next time he's out hacking - did he 'choose' to go hacking? Or have that canter? Of course not.

Plus, the HRBLB raise a lot of money to put into researching - something that Pete & most leisure horses have benefitted from.

 

[Bodshi]

TBH I'm not sure about the ethics of it all, but I do love it. I try not to think about the ones that don't make it and what happens to them. It is a huge industry which provides livelihoods to millions and I dare say brings a fair bit of revenue into the country.

I completely understand what you're saying about exploiting animals for human entertainment though - I won't watch 'I'm a Celebrity' for the same reason. How about Jeremy Kyle? Exploiting low IQ humans for entertainment?

 

[Orenoko]

I hadn't thought about showjumping or dressage until it was mentioned here, I suppose the general public won't hear about fatalities in those disciplines as they aren't as widely publicised, but really interesting food for thought. Plus as you say @Pete's Mum the risk of injury is there whatever you're doing.

I also agree with you @Bodshi re the financial side of it. That's why I don't think it should be abolished or anything like that, loads of livelihoods lost as well as hundreds (if not more) horses who could suddenly need rehoming.

It's great that we're able to have a non-judgemental discussion about this on here, I'm always put off commenting elsewhere about it because I'd probably get attacked by both sides for not being partisan enough!

 

[carthorse]

I live in a racing village & I tend to the view that a lot of the racing industry isn't something horse lovers would want to work in. Having said that I suspect the same could be said about a lot of yards involved in the very top end of competitive horse sports.

 

[MrC]

Racing is no different from any other high performance horse sport.

I come from a racing involved family and I hate The light that many of the deaths of the horses and shown in.

If you had to compile a list of racing related deaths, eventing related deaths, SJ related deaths and hobby kept horse related deaths you wouldn’t really see much of a difference in numbers.

 

[carthorse]

I think what I hate most is how early they bring them into work & the fact that so many of them have either no or a poor future outside racing. But then I see how dressage horses perform in 4yo classes & there's no way that's produced from a horse that's not long backed & arguably it places greater strain on them than racing & again what happens to the ones that don't make the grade because I'm betting a lot of them aren't suitable for average riders either. I have no doubt other sports are the same. And they probably all have a better deal than horses you see on fb pages like Prince Fluffy Kareem . . .

 

[Orenoko]

Racing is no different from any other high performance horse sport.

I come from a racing involved family and I hate The light that many of the deaths of the horses and shown in.

If you had to compile a list of racing related deaths, eventing related deaths, SJ related deaths and hobby kept horse related deaths you wouldn’t really see much of a difference in numbers.

Thanks MrC, it's good to hear an opinion from your perspective. I think it comes across differently because we see it on the TV screen right in front of us and it brings the debate into the the popular conscious so to speak as you can't get away from it and whoever is commentating has to tell the viewers the outcome.

@carthorse I've often wondered if some of the injuries could be prevented by bringing them into racing (or other sport) a bit later but I don't know enough about horses and their development. If we don't generally back until 3/4 outside of competitive industry why is it acceptable within the industry? (genuine question)

 

[Calluna]

I agree with Mr C. And while it is sickening to see injuries (and the view from the "other side" of the green screen that popped up on facebook) the deed is done very swiftly, which I see as a welfare plus to minimise suffering even when it is distressing. Where humans are involved in competition unscrupulous behaviour does emerge in unscrupulous people and on the flip side, accidents can happen to the best prepared too. I don't know very much about racing but thought there had been changes to rules re whipping and emphasis on post race care, rehydration etc. What I don't know and think might be helpful is whether the horses are independently passed fit to race at the meeting...just thinking of the trot up in eventing or the heart rate monitoring in endurance. I would hope that they are.
We basically need better humans involved in sport and better independent monitoring of welfare.

 

[Lissie]

I don't think it's any worse than any other horse sports. Horses get injured and die all the time from being out in the field to show jumping and eventing. Racing is more in the media and with the betting culture is seen in a different way. I know a horse died at Liverpool international last year and 1 died at the same show the year before, there was no media backlash about those. If the statistics were all gathered of field accidents, hacking, eventing, show jumping deaths I think they would all gave similar numbers to racing.

I used to be a work rider on a national hunt yard, the horses are loved by lads/girls. When a horse doesn't come home the yard really feels it. As with all yards in sports some are better than others. And also some owners are better than others. But at the of the day there's a worse fate for horses than death.

 

[Orenoko]

Thank you both, I'm learning a lot from all the replies on here which are well thought through and not condemning anyone who might come with a different opinion. When I wrote my original post I thought there's no way I could support racing, and even though I still can't get the image of that poor horse out of my head, it's so helpful to hear from informed people. While I still think more could be done in terms of safety on some types of course, everyone here has made such valid points about the industry as a whole and the welfare of the animals. As someone who has come to riding in adulthood it's easy to make a snap judgement about something based on seeing something like that, which is why I wanted to ask the question on here as it's always good to learn from people from different backgrounds who aren't pushing an agenda but all love horses.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

How refreshing @Orenoko that you came on here from a position of genuinely wanting to know more and being prepared to be influenced by what we say. That's a fantastic attitude and rare in these days of sounding off on social media. Good for you!

And the balanced, thoughtful replies you've got from the members on here are, I would say, typical of this forum at its best. I'm sorry @newforest is not around at the moment - she has had a couple of shares in racehorses and has a good informed opinion!

 

[Orenoko]

How refreshing @Orenoko that you came on here from a position of genuinely wanting to know more and being prepared to be influenced by what we say. That's a fantastic attitude and rare in these days of sounding off on social media. Good for you!

And the balanced, thoughtful replies you've got from the members on here are, I would say, typical of this forum at its best. I'm sorry @newforest is not around at the moment - she has had a couple of shares in racehorses and has a good informed opinion!

Thanks @Jane&Ziggy, it's great to have had such a balanced response too, so thanks to everyone who contributed! There's always something to learn regardless of the topic, and this has certainly given me loads to think about and research further.

 

[lauren123]

Hmmm.
I am also someone who is in 2 minds about racing, more towards racing. I feel that 2/3 years of age is too young to race, but it happens. Yet they are given 5 star treatment all the way through their racing life. I do like to go racing but then i do worry how many will have problems in later life. But as others have said in SJ/Polo/ Dressage etc a lot of horses don't make it and because racing is in the public eye more its seen more. I know the grooms who look after there horses day in day out. Get very upset if one doesn't return home, its stable already made up.. The training of the horses and the races having been made much safer aswell.

Saying that. I am a owner of a very very special ex racer, as @Jessey knows!! Considering racing gets a 'bad' name he was actually started late, I say late at 3. He was hacked for the first year while he matured. He went out in the field with his mates for an hour which he loved. Racing wasn't his thing and he was sold at 5. Though he had been passed around a lot, sadly, before coming to myself. We haven't done as much as i had planed! However he is such a lovely genuine boy who just wants to please and anyone can lead him/ sit on him. One of the things i am most pleased with really is more, after ex racer leave racing they can end up in bad homes... I am just very pleased my boy is in a good home even if he is a walking vets bill!

 

[Mary Poppins]

Have a look at how many horses fall at Badminton this year. Or just visit any livery yard and see how many horses are currently injured through low level activity. We put our horses through so much, they are the most forgiving animals. I don’t think racing is any different from any other equestrian discipline really, horses suffer everywhere.