naughty boy! opinions needed

Eli_Jay

Eli_Jay

cheque, kirsty & bradford
Jan 26, 2005
199
0
0
34
Victoria, Australia
Visit site
I need opinions! my horse hurt his back about seven months ago and started bucking. Since then he has been given the all clear by physiotherapists and has had a new saddle fitted, but he has not stopped bucking.
Anyway, he's just moved stables and yesterday I decided to trial an eventing club that I'm about to join that runs every saturday on the next property along from my stable.
He hadn't been ridden all week but i gave him a quick work out in the arena (about fifteen minutes) and he was perfectly settled and happy.
We rode to the next stable and into the indoor arena (which he's used to)
Short story is, he bucked - like REALLY bucked - about ten times during the lesson for no apparent reason. I started reacting by scolding him and turning him in a tight circle, but when he continued to buck i was instructed to whack him hard over the rump with my whip.
Well i did, and it seemed to work for a while but he acted up something chronic at the end of the lesson.
I led him back to our stables, during which time he reared and knocked me in the shin and just about ripped my arm out of its socket dancing sideways and throwing his head. when he reared i yanked his head down and smacked his shoulder. When he was trotting sideways throwing his head i used the bit quite firmly in a sort of in hand half hold, and as soon as he slowed i gave him rein and praised him. Once home i jumped on him and cantered him around the arena to settle him a bit and make sure i had him under control.

This is really unlike him. My trainer thinks it was a mixture of him being in a new environment with reasonably new horses (he rode with them last weekend), and also testing me and my position as 'the boss' in the new environment. I'm not fussed by his behaviour as i can easily sit the bucks and they don't scare me or make me nervous, but i don't think its acceptable behaviour and i was wondering if anyone had any ideas why he might be doing it, and if you think i reacted in the right way.
All opinions very welcome, I'm sorry its such a long post, but i needed to write it down and i hope i get some feedback! thanks
 
yikes im sorry the bucking is still going on but it certainly looks like youve done everything you can to solve the problem. I cant really offer you much advice, but i know that some horses who have had a bad back remember the pain - even if they arent in any anymore. So thats a possibility :) im not much help lol, but maybe someone else can give you a way to solve it.
 
Unfortunately although you know the horse has been given the all clear, he doesn't. Even if there is no pain (and it's always worth getting a second opinion if he's still bucking) he will anticipate pain - so he'll buck. It's not just the pain that has to be dealt with, it's also the memory of pain and anticipation of pain.

How you deal with him will dictate how he reacts. If he's not being ridden regularly, and has had a long time off with the back injury, he'll also need time to come back into work. It's not a matter of hopping on and picking up where you left off, sadly. He may need to take things slowly and fitten up first.

Tight circles will make things worse. Again, even if his back is ok now, he might not be up to that kind of manouvre just yet. It could even make him sore - whch will reinforce his idea that this will hurt and make him buck. Same with smacking him, sometimes.

Yanking on his head when he reasr is more likely to make him go up higher, or again - most horses when yanked in the head will go upwards anyway. Try smacking his belly or chest while he's off the ground instead.

I'd try and keep schooling sessions short and sweet for now - even just twenty minutes of good work is going to be better than an hour of fighting. If he's settled and working well after that time, try ending there on a good note - that way he won't anticipate trouble next time you ride.
 
Could it still be that he is still in discomfort from his back problems? Just having a saddle on his back may cause him to buck.. If he is "side stepping", lowering his head, or doing any other naughty things you should try bumping his head up, and if he does buck then quickly jerk the reins back and forth, not enough to hurt him but enough to let him know you are there.

But remember always keep a deep seat and sit back if he trys to buck you off. Hope I helped. :) ;)
 
Last edited:
thanks for all the replies :)
firstly, he is well and truly over his back problem physically (given the ok by vet, 4 star competitor, bowens therapist, instructor and physiotherapist) and has been in work since then for over 6 months without complaint (except for this little incident and a couple of others). He was brought back into work carefully, with lots of long, lpw work and trail riding before attempting schooling sessions and jumping again.
I'm particularly interested by Chevs comment - thanks, and I'll keep that in mind next time the naughty boy rears!
I had a lesson on him yesterday just in one of the arenas at our stable and he was an angel, no bucking, shying or rearing.
COuld it possibly have been related to being in a new environment? But, then again, he's never been a problem in new places and he just refused to settle the entire time and was stupid on the way home, even though he'd been happy enough to wander over about an hour before.
 
Just a thought, but if he's only doing it in new situations but was fine before, could it be linked to tension? If he's tense being put somewhere new - before it never affected him, but now it triggers something, either physically causing muscle spasms or something causing pain, or mentally as it feels similar to the back problem which hurt?

What happens if you take him somewhere like that and work in the same way you did when he was just coming back into work? It may only take 5 or 10 mins to get him to settle then you might be able to increase the pressure. Personally I wouldn't think he's 'testing' you (but then I hate that phrase with a passion :rolleyes: ). I'd say it's more likely pain or fear of pain, and therefore a totally reasonable reaction.

In my experience smacking for bucking will end up going 1 of 2 ways. 1 is that you end up seriously injured because he won't stop or does something worse because you aren't listening. 2 is that he decides you'll never listen and decides he has to live with it. Result - he thinks there's no point in telling you something hurts and potentially lives in chronic pain. That can lead to other problems, both mentally and physically.
 
What do you do when your horses buck then?
I normally don't slap him when he bucks (either circle him to calm him and regain control or just ride him through it) but i was - er - firmly instructed to by the instructor.
 
Eli_Jay

Some time ago, I was in a lesson and doing a counter-canter exercise with my horse. As we neared the end, she spooked and dumped me :rolleyes:

So I picked myself up out of the dust and we carried on. This was in an outdoor arena with plenty of distractions. A few days later I decided to work on the same exercise, as part of my own work, in the indoor school. Lo and behold, get to the same point and she spooks again and dumps me !! No distractions, no nothing.

I had to assume that there was something else. My mare has a temper, has a character, and likes to play. But she also has a really strong work ethic - so this was just out of character. Not the spooking, but the spooking there and then. There was no point in "telling her off" - she was trying to tell me something (it hurts, or, I can't do this) and if I didn't listen, she just "spoke" louder til I did ! :eek: (She's done this once before when I was working on the ground and asked for too much sideways, too fast - one hind leg later...)

The point I am trying to make is that you know your horse, and we don't. Is this behaviour in character or not ? Is he trying to tell you something ? Or is it "play" ?

When they talk to you like this, you should always "listen" - but you can't always say "ok lets not do this then". Sometimes you still have to go ahead. But then are there things you can do to make it easier for the horse to do what you are asking ?

another example - my mare used to buck the first time you asked for canter. So we worked on her canter from the ground, got a chiro out, and I tend to get a canter from the ground before I ask from on top. Now she doesn't buck :D

She wasn't being naughty - she had physical issues that needed help, and training issues that I needed to sort out. In this case I couldn't stop asking her for canter, but I could find ways to make it easier for her. That way we are both happier !

Are there things you could do that would help you horse ? I know you've already had back checked etc. But what patterns are there to this behaviour and what can you do to help him ?
 
cvb - you put it brilliantly. I always try to listen to cheque. an example was at pony club a few months ago and he was bucking in the canter. I rode him through it and the instructor wanted me to keep going but i stopped (much to her irritation) whipped my saddle off and - low and behold!- his back was sore.

Physically, Cheques fine. one of the co-owners of the stable is a recently retired vet and he checked him out and gave Cheque the all clear. Cheque, by nature, is a chilled out smoocher who isn't really bothered by much.

Three times now he's been in this sort of 'manic' mood. He's bucked far more often than this, but in those instances it was either high spirits or pain.

First instance was when he was ridden out on the road and saw other horses ahead of him and he just went beserk and wouldn't stop bucking. It got to the point where it was required he was led down the road.
Second incident was riding outside in a small, flat paddock and we were just trotting (he'd already had a good 45 minutes in the indoor being lunged) and two horses in neighbouring paddocks started racing around having fun and he through a fit and started bucking and spinning, once again i walked him only for a few minutes before getting off and leading him.
Lastly is the incident that i wrote about above. Only this time i didn't get off and lead him, i stayed put and attempted to ride him through it.
Is it possible that its simply high spirits? Because i am certain its not pain.
 
It could be anxiety coupled with past back pain ? I'm not convinced about pure high spirits from your description as he sounds quite worried and uptight at the time ? (rearing when led etc). Though it may just be my interpretation of your words as I've had to lead a stroppy mare that just wanted her own way and was not in pain at all (not my own mare) who did a lot of similar stuff. (if they'd fed her less oats it might have helped :rolleyes: She was a 4 year old chestnut mare who was not being ridden, and was being fed significant oats !!)

As I said, my mare can be spooky. If I do what I would have done on my old horse - sit deep and ask for stop, she panics even more (the constraint freaks her out - she worries she won't be able to get away from the Nasty Thing). And I think she is also more uncomfortable in this "panic" mode - through her back and hips - but you wouldn't pick it through a normal check as she's not normally in this "braced" position.
 
Eli_Jay said:
What do you do when your horses buck then?
I normally don't slap him when he bucks (either circle him to calm him and regain control or just ride him through it) but i was - er - firmly instructed to by the instructor.
Click to expand...

It depends why they're doing it. High spirits or strop bucks I ignore. Anything else - fear/ anxiety related, if it's more than 1 or 2 bucks I take the pressure off, let them calm down then try again. Taking the pressure off doesn't necessarily mean giving them an easy way out though. Say you get bucks in trot, come back to walk but work them - turns, circles etc. So you move away from what's stressing them (trot), but maintain the effort required from them. Then introduce small amounts of the stress work. For pain related bucking I either give up and go home or avoid any work that causes it.
 
as per zingy, it depends why they are bucking. If its physical, I will try and remove the cause (back, saddle) etc and it may be that I need to do specific things in warm up to help with this.

If its "high spirits" then I would normally ride them through it and ask them to work - if they have that energy, lets put it to good use !!

Fi doesn't buck so much now, but still has her spooky moments. So I'll work on shoulder-fore, circles, leg-yields etc to ask her to focus on me and not on being a butterfly brain !

But the problem with bucking is diagnosing the reason, and sitting it to be able to ride them forward.

In theory the horse has to drop their head to buck, so if they are working properly they should have problems doing it. But if they are bucking through pain, you need to watch the "raise your head" approach to buck control as it could make the pain worse and hence the reaction more severe.

I think they also need to have their head straight ? So asking for neck flexion etc should also help with prevention when you know it might happen.

I'm all for preventing it in the first place rather than dealing with it when it happens ;)
 
thanx cvb and zingy.
He bucked again today, once during the canter and once jumping. i'm starting to think its a lack of work/too much green grass result. Because I had a lesson on him the day after saturday (when he was bucking badly, but also had a long workout) he was an angel, and today when he was not ridden yesterday he was bucking again.
I think because its a new stable I'll just continue to ride him through it if its just a buck, but i've been firmly told by a number of instructors that, if he shies and leaps sideways and bucks, to give him a firm whack with the crop.
I don't lik doing it at all (I hate whacking him :()
 
Eli_Jay said:
What do you do when your horses buck then?
I normally don't slap him when he bucks (either circle him to calm him and regain control or just ride him through it) but i was - er - firmly instructed to by the instructor.
Click to expand...

Yesterday in my lesson, I was given a school horse who is known to buck. My instructor explained at the start that there's nothing wrong with him and he's just being naughty when he does it. She made it clear that I must try to keep his head up and if he so much as thought about bucking, I was to upend my whip, whack him hard and be prepared to sit on what followed.

At one point I fealt a buck coming so I walloped him once. Afterwards, my instructor said I had handled him quite well but said she would have hit him twice as hard!
 
if he is not in pain increase his work load, when he bucks yank his head up and then kick him forward, try not to pold around in walk a lot keep the sessions active use a lot of transitions. i would also get his teeth checked by a qualified dentist (beware of cowboy dentists without qualification)
 
How did the back injury occur? If in a lesson with others or doing similar type work with others he may still remember some things.
Our mare hurt her back and even after all clear, still quite tense when saddled up, we lunged her and long reined her as well as gentle riding and soon leant saddle, work etc ok and no pain. Now several months on is working really well, no tension, so no pain.
Good luck with your horse.
 
ill fitting saddle... but the bucking doesn't seem to triggered by a specific thing... he'll be fine doing flat, then he'll start bucking and carrying on, he'll jump something big without any problems and throw a tantrum about going over a pole on the ground.
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back