What do you think of them and their methods/points of view on horses, the rider and natural horsemanship?
do you agree - why?
do you agree - why?
- Michael peace - Richard Maxwell - Kelly Marks - Discussion
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I watched a kelly marks demo yesterday at wellington riding and she was wonderful.She did join up with 3 different horses, one being an unbacked 3 year old it was amazing to watch.The horse was following her around after about 10 mins, she then stroked the horse all over and ended up putting a saddle on and eventually her asisstant was sat on him.I think NH is great its kind and there is no pressure on the horse at all. Her horse pie was there to and he is amazing too.
I like all three but have to say that I'm leaning more towards Max these days ... for the reasons that ambatt gives
did something happen between richard maxwell and monty roberts? years ago he used to be in your horse doing join up etc and it was all about these 2, now after my few years out from horses theyre not associated? I just think its a bit odd he has changed methods and 'mentors' and it says this on his website
For me it has all been about refinement, I’m actually embarrassed by the videos that were made about 10 years ago, but at least its an indication of how far I have come and how far I’ve still got to go. (if you are the ones buying them of ebay, although they are advertised new, they are 10 years old and definitely not representative of how I work now). Check out the new DVD that covers all the groundwork and long lining
For me it has all been about refinement, I’m actually embarrassed by the videos that were made about 10 years ago, but at least its an indication of how far I have come and how far I’ve still got to go. (if you are the ones buying them of ebay, although they are advertised new, they are 10 years old and definitely not representative of how I work now). Check out the new DVD that covers all the groundwork and long lining
i saw a monty roberts demo a few months ago and whilst i thought the work being done was amazing I thought Kelly Marks was totally, unacceptably rude to the owners of the horses being used in the demos who were clearly emotional and nervous. Just my opinion i guess, but i thought "who the hell do you think you're talking to??"
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Yann
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I like all three of them, they're all pretty similar in their approach and attitude and do similar sorts of things. I think there's something to be gained from watching and studying all of them. Most trainers will say they've learned, developed and refined things over the years, after all they're on the same journey as the rest of us, only better at it
I was at Kelly's demo on Sunday night too and thought there was some lovely sensitive horsemanship on display, really enjoyed it.
Well, if Max has bought an iberian and has dressage lessons with Heather Moffett he's got to be better...
I was at Kelly's demo on Sunday night too and thought there was some lovely sensitive horsemanship on display, really enjoyed it.
Well, if Max has bought an iberian and has dressage lessons with Heather Moffett he's got to be better...
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Yann
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Doesn't sound like Kelly to me I have to say, she strikes me as a real people person, everyone can have an off day, make a mistake or even be misunderstood though.
I have to agree Kelly is so down to earth. I think she does have to have a business-like attitude and I think she is extremely proffessional and doesnt get emotionally involved - not rude at all.
I love all three and what I like is that none profess to have "discovered" a new way of training. But they have discovered a way of "teaching" others to be as effective as them.
I have to say (I know this is a horse forum but......) Super Nanny and Victoria Stillwell (Its me or the Dog) should be up hre with these guys too.\
They're not Tree hugging purists (a common misconception) but all use assertive, positive, clear training/teachiong techniques.
They're not Tree hugging purists (a common misconception) but all use assertive, positive, clear training/teachiong techniques.
I don't think RM or MP would describe themselves as Natural Horsemen, they are animal behaviourists with from what I've seen a sensitive but practical approach to training,using bridles with bits and with a classical bias used with a knowledge of horse psychology and working with the welfare of the horse as foremost rather than a rider-inspired goal.Both work with young horses looking to start them off to being well rounded animals rather than aiming to produce them as ODE by the age of 4.
I had the privilege, and yes that is the right word, last Friday of watching a Richard Maxwell/ Heather Moffett demonstration with Becky Holden longlining as the dessert. It was jawdropping. I have always had time for Max, since I first saw him, when a fiery redhead, at the Duchy . He is down to earth, well aware of the cost of life, and the limits that your average horse owner has. He is also brilliant!!! Kelly I know nothing about from first hand, so cannot comment. I have seen Mike P and my horse has benefitted from his help. I have every respect for his horsemanship but cannot gel with his people skills. Other people can and do so .. horses for courses.
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Well, if Max has bought an iberian and has dressage lessons with Heather Moffett he's got to be better...
Can't you EVER give it a rest Yann?
I have to say that I've never found Kelly to be rude at all. The first time I ever came across her she was delightful and so friendly that I didn't realise that it was 'Kelly' .... though she did look familiar
We all have our off days though so maybe you saw her on a bad day. She's certainly not usually like that.Nothing happened between Monty and Max, they are still perfectly friendly. It is just that Max is like me, never wants to stop learning, and why he has been here for four days training, and is also off to John Lyons in the USA shortly. I have known Max since before he became really famous, and yes we have had our differences in the past, but we are both older, wiser, and hopefully, have grown, both as people, and also as riders and trainers in those years. I can honestly say that Max is completely open minded, enthusiastic and wonderfully easy to teach, having such excellent timing. He aims for lightness in his groundwork and it is therefore easy to transfer it to his ridden work, and that is why we complement each other's methods so well.
I was in Bavaria with Anja Beran in December, with her trainer Manuel Jorge de Oliveira in February, as well as visiting Rodrigo Costa de Matos, one of the best riders from the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art, and world working equitation champion, David Oliveira, not to mention going to my own trainer, Mestre Luis Valenca, and that was all in one week. I usually only watch the other trainers, unless I am invited to ride, but learn a great deal by watching, often more, as I can soak it up without having to concentrate on riding itself.
This month I am back in Portugal, and will be riding with Rodrigo this time too, as his guest, and also having a lesson on world working equitation champion, Opalino. So at 54 years old this month, I am still insatiably curious about learning, and when I stop, that will be the time to give up.
This is Max on his horse Jo- a write off at 8 yrs, dressage bred, but so misunderstood and forced that his brain was fried to the extent he couldnt be ridden, couldnt be caught, and would also just run through fences.
Yann, when you can ride a horse as well as Max, never mind bring a 17.2hh write off back from the brink of destruction, you will be in a position to make such remarks. OPen up your mind, and possibly your eyes, and you will learn a lot more.
You never used to be like this at all, when I was here on New Rider some years ago, and it is a great shame. It seems that whenever and wherever I see you posting, it is so often to make sarcastic and even spiteful remarks, often alluding to me, either directly or indirectly! I dont know what I have done to deserve it, I have never met you, and dont ever remember having fallen out with you on the Net. If I have done something to deserve your wrath and ridicule, then I hope you will at least contact me to discuss it.
Heather
I was in Bavaria with Anja Beran in December, with her trainer Manuel Jorge de Oliveira in February, as well as visiting Rodrigo Costa de Matos, one of the best riders from the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art, and world working equitation champion, David Oliveira, not to mention going to my own trainer, Mestre Luis Valenca, and that was all in one week. I usually only watch the other trainers, unless I am invited to ride, but learn a great deal by watching, often more, as I can soak it up without having to concentrate on riding itself.
This month I am back in Portugal, and will be riding with Rodrigo this time too, as his guest, and also having a lesson on world working equitation champion, Opalino. So at 54 years old this month, I am still insatiably curious about learning, and when I stop, that will be the time to give up.
This is Max on his horse Jo- a write off at 8 yrs, dressage bred, but so misunderstood and forced that his brain was fried to the extent he couldnt be ridden, couldnt be caught, and would also just run through fences.
Yann, when you can ride a horse as well as Max, never mind bring a 17.2hh write off back from the brink of destruction, you will be in a position to make such remarks. OPen up your mind, and possibly your eyes, and you will learn a lot more.
You never used to be like this at all, when I was here on New Rider some years ago, and it is a great shame. It seems that whenever and wherever I see you posting, it is so often to make sarcastic and even spiteful remarks, often alluding to me, either directly or indirectly! I dont know what I have done to deserve it, I have never met you, and dont ever remember having fallen out with you on the Net. If I have done something to deserve your wrath and ridicule, then I hope you will at least contact me to discuss it.
Heather
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PS, Michael Peace is also a good friend of mine, and he too is a brilliant horseman. He hasnt perhaps, Max's interest in moving on as a Classical rider, which he could very easily do!! But nonetheless, has absolutely brilliant timing and feel.
Heather
Heather
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Yann
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I should save your indignation, I've already stated my opinion regarding him earlier in his thread and the comment was a joke which someone unfortunately seems to have taken literally. I've watched him demo and have his books and he gave me some really useful advice regarding my nappy horse (as was). I also had a light bulb moment watching him teach a horse to soften using the myler combination, which appeared to me to be exactly the same as using a pelham for the same thing as recommended by you. Brought home that most people are doing the same things by different means, especially when they're always looking for the horse to become lighter and more responsive in the kindest possible manner.
Um don't know a lot about them, heard a bit about Kelly Marks techniques and wasn't to impressed but I don't know enough about them. I lean more to the side of Ken Faulkner and Jayne Lavender www.jaynelavender.com
i've just discovered 'Perfect Manners' by kelly marks. It is now my bible. her philosophies and way of doing things is excellent and i've had huge success turning around my objectionable, stubborn cob both inhand and undersaddle using her exercises. They are also providing the perfect grounding for my youngster. I'd love to see her in action live. But sadly being in NE scotland we get very few demos within reasonable travelling time
I went to a richard maxwell demo about 8 years ago and enjoyed it. I've been reading with interest his series in Eventing magazine dealing with various problems and as an eventing subscriber am entitled to a discount on his latest DVD which i will be purchasing.
I went to a richard maxwell demo about 8 years ago and enjoyed it. I've been reading with interest his series in Eventing magazine dealing with various problems and as an eventing subscriber am entitled to a discount on his latest DVD which i will be purchasing.
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I know someone who was into NH and had been to a Kelly Marks demo, and wasn't too impressed by one or two of her techniques, but as I personally have never seen her, I couldn't really say.
I'm sure, as with ANY trainer/instructor, they all have some interesting tips/techniques to offer.
The only person who I have watched in person is Richard Maxwell, and I'm sorry to say, I really wasn't that impressed. He rode a horse on the yard I was at, and seemed to make no headway at all; he had worked with the horse before, and the owner, who rides the horse very well, admits that it's not an easy ride. I understand that it must be difficult when you're only there for a short time, but he didn't really seem to have any words of advice for the owner. I don't think he's been back...
I appreciate this isn't everybody's view, and I'm sure he's done some valuable work with other people's horses, but I can only speak as I find - sorry! (Ducks under table to hide...)
I'm sure, as with ANY trainer/instructor, they all have some interesting tips/techniques to offer.
The only person who I have watched in person is Richard Maxwell, and I'm sorry to say, I really wasn't that impressed. He rode a horse on the yard I was at, and seemed to make no headway at all; he had worked with the horse before, and the owner, who rides the horse very well, admits that it's not an easy ride. I understand that it must be difficult when you're only there for a short time, but he didn't really seem to have any words of advice for the owner. I don't think he's been back...
I appreciate this isn't everybody's view, and I'm sure he's done some valuable work with other people's horses, but I can only speak as I find - sorry! (Ducks under table to hide...)
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Yann
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Eventerbabe, it would be worth getting hold of both Mike Peace and Richard Maxwell's books too and having a good read, I think you'd find them very useful and interesting too, particularly the differences in approach and emphasis
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