lunging - turning in and stopping?

hApPiNeSs

hApPiNeSs

& Sharman :)
Jun 28, 2004
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Cornwall
i havnt actually got a whip at the moment, and my line consists of some (not mine) draw reins attached to each other. I use my schooling whip, but Happy tends to turn in and stop, and try to walk towards me. i try and poke her out with my schooling whip, but she ignores it and tends to bend it in half. :rolleyes:

the only thing that will get her back out is giving her a firm tap on the backside with the stick and looking menacing at her. a couple of rounds later, she does it again. Is this just being cheeky? or is she confused about what she is meant to be doing? i dont like being so forceful
 
hApPiNeSs said:
i havnt actually got a whip at the moment, and my line consists of some (not mine) draw reins attached to each other. I use my schooling whip, but Happy tends to turn in and stop, and try to walk towards me. i try and poke her out with my schooling whip, but she ignores it and tends to bend it in half. :rolleyes:

the only thing that will get her back out is giving her a firm tap on the backside with the stick and looking menacing at her. a couple of rounds later, she does it again. Is this just being cheeky? or is she confused about what she is meant to be doing? i dont like being so forceful
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LOL - so Happy says "is it ok to come in now mum" and you don't say "no"... until she's already in ??

I suspect this is a combination of not knowing what is right, so offering something, and her trying to tell you what she should be doing ( as in "well if you're not going to lead, I shall !! Let's do this next :D ")

OK. "i try and poke her out with my schooling whip, but she ignores it and tends to bend it in half." so she KNOWS you're not going to use this unless you really have to. "the only thing that will get her back out is giving her a firm tap on the backside with the stick and looking menacing at her" - and you both know that - so why not cut out the middle bit and just do the tap ;)

Its what Pat P calls the "don't make me" game. i.e. the game is "don't make me tap you with the whip". As long as she does what you are asking, you don't use it. As soon as she comes in (without being asked) you DO use it...

Next thing to consider - where are you standing in relation to her ? There is a tendency to teach people to lunge so they stand quite a long way forward on the horse. But if you want to drive them forward, you need to be in the right position to do so. So try and get a little further "back" down her body and drive forward from there. Almost as if you are long reining with one rein but not quite that far ;)
 
come to my rescue again i see :D :eek:

i really dont like using the whip. she makes this face at me like 'dont hit me you evil mummy' and then i feel bad :eek:

i know its silly and i have to stop thinking that though :eek:

i am in the triangle position, but obviously my crummy whip isnt long enough. Cant get one til Janurary though :rolleyes: :mad:

By the way - as she is coming in i do shout and wave like a loony, but she ignores it and runs in to give me a hug :eek: :D

guess i just need to be more assertive. .... :(

was just wondering whether she was trying to tell me she didnt want to, or was just taking control...
 
You need to catch her before she actually is in towards you. The split second you see her begin to think about coming in, move yourself so that you are slightly more towards her back end (though still in a safety zone - don't get close enough to be in danger) and send her forwards. Keep doing it every time she looks like thinking about turning in. That may mean that for a while your circles are rather odd shaped, but once she gets the idea, you'll be able to stand still again.
 
yup cvb is right. I had to lunge my friends horse recently and get him out of this habit because he got to the stage where he just wouldnt go out at all!
Ive always been thought to 'keep the triangle'. You are one corner of the triangle. The lunge rope and your whip make up two sides, the horses body is the other side. lol this makes sense to me but apologies if I explain it badly. You need to keep yourself with the whip pointing at her quarters at all times so she doesnt get the opportunity to turn it. By having the whip pointing at her quarters it encourages her to move forwards . If you can get a lunge whip at all though rather than a schooling whip it would make this easier for you!
 
am planning to get a lunge whip. But am at college all week and working 20 hrs per weekend, so theres no chance of me getting to a tack shop any time soon.... except asking my mum to pick up neccesarys such as feed :rolleyes: (she wouldnt know what a lunge whip is)

will continue with it for the time being - and be more ASSERTIVE :D
 
well if someone, anyone, replies, its going to stay in the "top 10" and get more attention ! ;)

i really dont like using the whip. she makes this face at me like 'dont hit me you evil mummy' and then i feel bad :eek:

she's got you round her little hoof ;)

i am in the triangle position
aha, but how long is the line from you to her nose vs you to her tail ? "BHS" tend to teach an equal triangle there, which puts you on the verge of being too far ahead and often makes the horse uncertain of your intentions.

guess i just need to be more assertive. .... :(
yep :D but assertive is not the same as aggressive, mean, nasty. Its just telling it like it is ;)

was just wondering whether she was trying to tell me she didnt want to, or was just taking control...

OK - and if it was that she didn't WANT to, what would you do ? stop ? or insist that she does ?

As a survivial trait horses need to conserve energy for when that lion attacks ;) so if they don't have a reason to work, they don't. Her reason needs to be because you've asked her to !

As you have a whip-supply issue, practice swinging the tail-end of the lunge rope. If you swing it underhand and "up", it should raise the energy. Overhand and down is the request to disengage the bum and stop (so suggest you use underhand swing ;) ).

The first time you swing it she may turn to see what is going on. Simply walk towards her bum and move her away, in any direction, from you.

If you don't want to try this, then use the whip you currently use, but go into "long rein" position towards her hind quarters just close enough that you can tap her hip gently and rhythmically with your whip. If she slows up, tap her on again ;) This may mean you have to walk a big circle as well, or you'll end up going in tiny tiny circles...
 
cvb said:
i really dont like using the whip. she makes this face at me like 'dont hit me you evil mummy' and then i feel bad :eek:

she's got you round her little hoof ;)
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Just what I was going to say :D She is exploiting you and laughing all the way...its what ponies do! You need to be much more assertive, but as cvb says not nasty, just really mean what you say. Its like kids, if you make a threat (or a promise) you always have to carry it out or don't make it in the first place. She knows you don't REALLY want to use the whip on her so is just doing what she feels like - if you don't want her to come in you need to be a lot more forceful about it...not necessarily with the whip (although do actually USE it if she really messes about, she might be a bit shocked first time but you have to show that you can actually do something to back up your commands if she disobeys you) you can also use body language, but again really MEAN it if you send her out. And as people have said don't worry about walking very close to her (obviously out of harms way just in case but not standing in the middle initially) so you can flick her with the whip and keep her out and you can keep the triangle. It is easy to actually ask the horse to turn in by accident by getting ahead of it.
 
well if someone, anyone, replies, its going to stay in the "top 10" and get more attention !
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eh? i dont understand that bit... :confused:

thanks for the other advice though - i think i understand what i was doing wrong now. :eek:
 
I think cvb is just making sure it stays in the 'New Posts' so more people will see this and hopefully reply. And yes, more towards the hindquarters even if it means you circling with her - if you get in front of her hindquarters your body language is actually asking her to turn in/stop. Now you have edited your post my reply doesn't make sense anymore :rolleyes: :D
 
i edited it yes, because i understood then :D

thanks, its really helped. going to try again tonight.... cant wait actually :D

and understand cvb's comment too now - at first i thought she was implying i post too much :eek:
 
hApPiNeSs said:
eh? i dont understand that bit... :confused:

thanks for the other advice though - i think i understand what i was doing wrong now. :eek:
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Happiness - sorry - I'd quoted all sorts of bits and the system objected and said I had too many "images" :rolleyes:

this was in response to "come to my rescue again i see"
 
oh right - well your the person who often answers my posts first, with very helpful answers. :)

oh, am getting quite excited now, its very sad. :eek: :D

ok - aim for tonight - get THREE full circles in trot on each rein interrupted. and im going to GET IT :D
 
hApPiNeSs said:
ok - aim for tonight - get THREE full circles in trot on each rein interrupted. and im going to GET IT :D
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Cool. But remember that this target is probably "by the end of our lunging session I will be able to get three full circles in trot"...

I went to the Mark Rashid clinic in Feb, came home, got on my mum's pony and went :adopts booming voice: "GO SOFT !"....

Luckily for me the poor chap did it - bless his cotton socks :eek:

Went to the July clinic to see him saying to people "Ok, first ask for just 3 strides of soft and then release and reward. When you can get that consistently, ask for 5, then 7... "

big light bulb goes on and cvb feels like a complete bully :(

So - learn from my mistakes !! How much of a circle do you normally get ? Aim a little higher than that, and tell her she's a good girl when she does it. I'm not suggesting you STOP her - yes you might get 3 straight away just with the all-new-improved-assertiveness ;) But don't get upset if she checks you out a little bit to see if you really mean it.

Then just ask for a little more each time - calmly, serenely.... :cool: and assertively ;)
 
Just like to add that you mustn't forget your voice, all horses seem to react to a 'cluck,cluck' with your tongue, so if can do this as soon as there is any hesitation in the rhythm it will be easier to keep the pace with your body language, whip etc
 
My trainer Ramon has a terrific trick for these horses. When they stop and turn in they are effectively saying 'ha ha what are you going to do now to make me work' 'ha! nothing you're stumped aren't you' . You'll even find horses that will do it with a full lunging whip because they learn how to work out where the whip can 'get them' and keep their bums just an inch out :rolleyes:

So the trick is not to be mean - not to constantly nag (which is how Ramon sees the traditional triangle) but instead he likes to ask a horse to do something and it should then continue to do it until asked to do something else. He never uses force to do this, hates people who nag with the legs but instead uses consistent training. So for lunging - he doesn't use a whip. He uses his voice and body position. HOWEVER, if there is a horse that does the 'stop' without being asked - then he will use a plastic shopping bag tied to the end of a dressage whip.

Before trying to correct lunging though you should teach your horse to move forward correctly on the lunge - do this with the horse on a short lead. Stand at it's head facing the horse - move to the shoulder and cluck , say walk on and if the horse immediately moves praise (if it doesn't touch the hind quarters with the whip) - Usually a touch (not even a tap) is all that's required. Repeat until as soon as you move into position at the shoulder the horse moves forward. Stop the horse by stepping in front of it (toward the head so that you are no longer at the shoulder)

Only once your horse understands going forward can you use your secret weapon to stop the bad habit. Hide it behind you back (tuck it in your pants if you like) - ask the horse forward on the lunge, leave it alone when it does (you don't need to encourage a horse that is already doing its job). When the horse stops without being asked - quickly bring the whip out and shake the bag toward the rear of the horse and as soon as it moves hide the whip again. Repeat as required (about 3 times and the horse suddenly thinks that stopping without being asked will make a monster appear). Be prepared for a quite rapid depart! so you may have to move with the horse - stay calm, make no effort to calm the horse just wait for it to reach the end of the lunge and continue on the circle - praise then.
 
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