Lunge Lesson Frustration

Ensy

New Member
Jul 29, 2010
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Hello, I this is my first post and I want to begin by saying what a great resource this forum has been for me as a beginner, thank you New Rider people!

I'm sorry this is a bit long, I had my fourth riding lesson today and I'm afraid it was very frustrating. All of my lessons have been on the lunge so far, there are two of us in the lunge lesson - my daughter and myself, and one instructor. Mostly it has been going ok, however, today the horse my daughter was on was trotting a lot more slowly that the one I was riding, so of course we kept catching up to her, and my horse would go back to walk.

She is a lovely responsive sweet old mare, and the reason she was slowing was there was nowhere to go, the instructor kept telling me to use the crop, she kept saying don't be afraid to use it. I said that she was slowing because we were right up to the horse in front who was trotting realllllly slowly, so she told me to keep steering her to the outside of the one in front. Well I tried to, but we would get up level with the other horse with the lunge rope in the way and seeing as we were trotting faster... well you can probably imagine - so I was pretty bemused as to what to do.

I don't know how to make my horse trot more slowly, and when I tried to slow her a little she would go back to walk, and then the instructor would tell me to use the crop again, and I felt I didn't need to because as soon as I ask this horse to trot she trots! but we start to bump into the one in front! It isn't that she doesn't listen, in fact I felt that she was doing her best to do all I asked.

Well after doing this for an hour, constant stop start stop start Oh my I was so frustrated I was nearly in tears~ there I am thinking that on the lunge lesson as a newbie I am supposed to be concentrating on my rising trot, getting the correct diagonal, my balance, form etc and instead I am having to speed up, slow down, steer to the right and the poor horse is doing her best ..... I asked if it might be better for me to go in front seeing as mine trotted faster, but the instructor said that the other horse wouldn't trot if we did that :confused:

Sorry this was so long, I didn't mean to vent so much, but I would like to know if this is normal for a beginner lunge lesson, and what could I have done differently? Next week we are joining a group lesson for part of the time, but if we are on the lunge again for the other part is there anything I could do differently, am I not understanding something?
 
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I am not sure what has been happening in your lessons but the idea of a lunge lesson is it is a 1-1 where the instructor takes control of the horse and concentrates on you as a rider to improve your position etc. What you have been having is not a lungelesson!!

If the instructor had you both on the lunge or even one of you on the lunge and the other following this is incredibly dangerous!
 
Hi :) welcome to NR
I am having difficulty imagining the situation you describe where you have an instructor and 2 horses on the lunge (is that right?). Normally a lunge lesson would involve just the instructor and one client, the instructor lunges the horse (by standing in one spot with the horse moving in a circle around them) and the rider is free to concentrate on their position without having to worry about the horse's speed and direction.

There may be several reasons why the instructor isn't yet asking your daughter to ask her horse to trot faster, and generally getting the faster horse to stay on slightly bigger circles, take wider turns etc is a good tool to use but on the other hand if you repeatedly keep catching up it doesn't sound as if it is working.

Is the instructor holding 2 lunge lines, one of which is attached to each horse, or is it just your daughter on the lunge and you're riding independently? The former situation would be a complete mystery to me, but if it's the latter then\(aside from the fact I'd worry about how the instructor can reasonably concentrate on both of you) you need to ask your instructor to explain to you how to circle away if you get too close to the horse in front, or ride a walk transition, walk a few strides then trot on again once there's a bit of a gap.

ETA - cross posted with you eml, glad I'm not the only one a bit confused!
 
Yes sorry let me explain better. The instructor is mostly standing still, holding two ropes, with both of us on horses that are on the ropes she is holding. I tried really hard to steer to the outside, but there were other riders riding independently in the same area, and there wasn't room to be riding in a wide enough circle so that we weren't catching up to the horse in front.

I had expected when we started that we would be one horse and rider to one instructor on one lunge lesson each, but each week they have put us together this way.

Next week they are putting us into a group lesson, they said that we can do the walking and trotting but when the group canters they will ask us to sit in the middle on our horses whilst the group canters around us. We haven't been off the ropes at all yet, so I am a little worried that a group lesson is the first place we get to learn how to steer off the lunge, but when I asked if we could come off the lunge first to practice steering first we were told that it will be ok in the group lesson because our horses will follow the one in front. Am I right to feel a bit unsure about this riding school? Being completely new I have nothing to compare it to and don't know what is normal.
 
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I'm not an instructor or an expert, but this sounds very weird to me. Are you paying for individual lessons? If so, you should be getting individual lsssons - half an hour each on the lunge would be better than this sort of situation. No wonder you're frustrated!

If you are having lessons together, then I'd expect one to be working on the lunge at a time, while the other practises something else by herself.

I think you probably will be OK in a group lesson - but it's not ideal either if you haven't learned to steer the horse yet, and if you have to spend some of the time waiting for other people to do things. Are there any other schools in your area that you could look at?
 
I am a great believer in lunge lessons.

Please note what eml has said. She is a highly qualified instructor.

There is confusion here about the terminology.

When people have their first riding lessons it is usual to teach them on the lunge, simply because a brand new rider or small child may not be able to control a horse all on their own. In this situation the lesson should be one to one with an RI controlling both horse and pupil.

Should you be suspicious of this school? It is hard to say as we dont know the level of the other people in the group. But I would say yes. At the BHS school I started at, no one could join a group until they could canter. I felt that was expensive for those of us obliged to go on paying for private lessons - it put pressure on people to canter as soon as possible.

Keeping your horse moving is easier with other horses - they are herd animals and dont want to get left behind. But as you have found, they also tend to hurry, to catch up and overtake the horse in frojnt. part of riding is learning how to steer, turn and brake your horse and keep it in the right place in relation to others.

Does one have to learn to do rising trot at the same time as all this steering etc? I had too as my early lessons were always shared with someone else (with another teacher) in the school. But I would agree that you should both learn to be independent of the teacher before you join a group.

The down side of lunge lessons and the reason some adults dont like them is that one loses or doesnt learn one's independence. The other downside is that you are always riding on a circle - rather than trotting on the straight and turning corners. Long sides may speed the horse up. Corners slow the horse and may unbalance the rider, so I would say you need to learn that before joining a group.

You are right that the way to learn rising trot and good balance without bothering about the other things is a good, one to one lunge lesson. But giving a high quality lunge lesson is not the same as simply tethering two beginners to the end of two lines.

You dont say how old your daughter is but having seen both my OH and my grand daughter start riding over the last two years, I would find what you describe as unacceptable. But once they are both off the lunge, it is quite usual and acceptable for two elementary riders to share a lesson, including riding circles (and meeting the problems) as you have described.

Lunge lessons are just like any riding lesson - they are only as good or as bad as the RI teaching them.
 
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Lunging a horse in an arena whist others are being ridden is a big risk at the best of times let alone with a novice rider on. Equally letting two people who have never taken control of their horses join a lesson that is already cantering is just plain bad practice. One instructor attempting to lunge two horses just makes me go :timebomb: 'accident waiting to happen'

I don't know how old your daughter is but mixed adult and child lessons are very difficult if only because of the different paces of the ponies/horses involved, let alone ways of learning. It is not something I will ever contemplate.

As Skib says only you can make up your mind but I would be visiting other schools to see how they go about things.
 
Thank you for your replies, they confirm a lot of what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if this was normal practice or not. In answer to some of the questions above; the school is only charging us the same price that they charge for a group lesson - when I initially asked them for lessons I told them we were both complete beginners and would like private lessons to start with. They said we would be taught 'on the lunge' until we were ready to join a group, but they said they don't charge differently, maybe if I had known what I know now I would have asked to do it differently, half an hour each or pay more for a proper private lesson, money isn't the issue, but I guess this is the way they always start with beginners and I didn't know it wasn't normal.

My daughter is grown up, she is 19, so we are two adults. I agree that this is not what I now understand a proper lunge lesson should be after learning more on this forum, it was two beginners on ropes. I was worried that if my horse suddenly spooked and over took my daughter the rope would hit her or her horse in the back. I would have much preferred a half hour each.

I am going to visit some more riding schools today, and maybe book a beginner lesson at one so that I have something to compare it to, and see if it is a better experience. We will still try the group lesson next week, but I just feel nervous about the riding school in general, if they are doing something that seems so out of the ordinary with the beginner 'lunge lesson' then how will I know if the things we do in group is normal too? I don't think I have the trust I should have in them now, although I am surprised because it is a huge riding school with many many horses and it is very busy with riders and people everywhere. I thought if it was that popular it must be good, and the prices are comparable to others in the area, not cheaper or more expensive than normal.
 
I know several big city riding schools where there will be many lessons going on at the same time with several instructors using the same arena. That wouldn't suit me either as a teacher or pupil. Have a look around at some of the smaller owner/teacher run schools and see if this suits you better.

If you are in the UK members may have personal recommendations.
 
It is up to you whether you try the group lesson - but if you have any doubts, don't. My rule is never to do any riding about which I have doubts.

Falls in a private school lesson are relatively rare.
Group lessons are more chancy because you are dependent on the competence of other students.

A first group lesson where the teacher doesnt know you and you dont know the other people and horses adds to the risk.

My only school fall was like this. I once went on an "own a pony day for adults" which culminated in a class for the group. I took part against my own inclination - and wish I hadnt. The horse leading the line spooked in trot, and the two following horses including mine spun sideways across the school and two of us fell off.

The other rider who was new to the school was hurt and there was much fussing. I was unhurt, but ever since I have worn my body protector in the school - which I never did before.

If you love riding look around and even try a few others - they do vary in style as eml says.

Lunging a horse in an arena whist others are being ridden is a big risk at the best of times let alone with a novice rider on.

Thanks eml. This describes my first ever riding lesson where I was on the lunge and the pony made a sideways dash to challenge a horse circling large.. pulling the lunge rope from her hand.
I didnt fall and had no idea it was wrong. They always did that - with two people in the school while a lunge lesson was going on.
 
Ensy, nothing much to add, just echo what the others have said. It sounds most odd to me. Felt a bit sorry for the horse you were riding, it sounds like she was doing her best and doing what you had asked, but unable to get it right due to potentially bumping into the other horse? Oh dear. I would ask for private lessons or look around somewhere else. It doesn't sound right to me (in my limited experience) anyways. OH and I took private one to one lessons to start with - and any lunge lessons were always in the school one to one, certainly not two of us together!
 
Hi Ensy,
Apart from the obvious hazards as eml & co have rightly pointed out, I'm totally puzzled as to what you RI was trying to achieve by having you both on 'ropes' anyway if she was then expecting you to control the pace and direction of the horse and also apply the stick?? :frown:

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a group lesson where I was asked to stand in the middle of the school while others cantered round partly for safety and, tbh, partly because I want my money's worth from my expensive lesson!

I have just switched schools, in part due to the fact that beginners were being rushed into the group lessons, in some cases on their first lesson :eek:, and were causing a danger to themselves and others.

If you don't feel ready, I wouldn't join that group lesson, you don't sound comfortable. By the way, what does your daughter think?
 
Hi and thanks for the new replies, I am from the UK but living in Germany on the Dutch border at the moment. When I first started this thread I was unsure if it was something I was doing wrong, or misunderstanding because things just didn't feel right. After reading your replies I see now that I was right to feel uneasy and so I have taken your advice and went looking for new stables yesterday.

We have been going to the Netherlands for lessons because they tend to speak English a lot more. The first one I tried yesterday had a waiting list and said it will be at least a couple of months before they can fit two new beginners in, so I decided to search nearer to home in Germany for somewhere that can give lessons in English.

I found a smaller riding school, family run and I went to visit them. The facility is absolutely lovely, with beautiful healthy looking horses and the owner gave me a tour of the place and sat down to talk about what we wanted. We are going there for a lesson in a couple of days.

Beakysian, yes that was what I thought too, that I wasn't supposed to be controling the speed and direction when on the lunge, and my daughter feels that the school we have been going to is pushing the boundaries of what is safe, and she wants to try another school.

I will post again to let you know how the new lessons goes in a few days, thank you everyone! :happy:
 
Hi,

We had at least one German person on New Rider if you have language problems. If she is no longer a member, I know where to find her.

You may like to know that although riding education in Germany is not totally identical to the UK, the official handbook of The German National Equestrian Federation has been translated into English under the title The Principles of Riding. Provides a complete basic instruction course for horse and rider using the German training system.

I dont own this book but the excellence of German riders means that I made a note for myself (some years ago): if you cant get it via Amazon, it is listed on the BHS website.
 
New question about my lesson at the new school today!

Thanks Skib I will look that up, it sounds like it would be very useful I will see if I can get hold of a copy.
I have a new question after our riding lesson at the new school today:
The RS owner took us each for half an hour on the lunge rope on a large horse. The lesson was excellent, she gave us lots of exercises to do, circling our arms in walk then trot to work out our balance, expaining how to see if we are on the correct diagonal in rising trot, etc. It was great, I learned tons and can't wait to do it again.

Then she wanted us to try out a horse that has a different - what is the correct word - pace? gait? not sure, but much smaller horse so that we could feel the difference. The RS owner had to go out so we had a different instructor take us for this part of the lesson, again lunge rope 20 mins each.
As I expected it felt very different, and took me a while to be able to get used the different speed of the pace, but when I went into trot for the first time the horse went less than one circle before going into canter. I was kinda shocked! The instructor said it was because I had not kept the reins tight and when the horse felt the loose reins she thought she was supposed to canter.

Ok, I guess this is something new I need to learn about different horses? The horses I have been on before didn't do that, but this kept happening and I had to hold really hard pulling back on the reins all the time. I was worried I would be hurting the horse's mouth, I had previously thought it was wrong to hold the reins so tight? but when in walk if I didn't keep a tight backwards pull on the reins she would start to trot without me asking her in any other way.

When I asked the instructor she said that was normal, that in walk I should keep the reins tight and that if I relax my grip the horse will trot, so in trot I had to hold on really tight or she would spring off into canter. I felt like this horse had just drank a bucket of caffine and was raring to go! lol - I had to hold her back all the time. How tight should I be holding the reins? I mean I literally had to pull and have sores on my fingers from holding so tight, and it was only a 20 min session.

So I would appreciate you guys' advice and opinions on this, should a horse start to go faster if you are only keeping the reins tight enough to maintain contact? Is this a normal variation between different horses that I will just get used to their 'style' (is that the right word to describe how they go?) I will ask the RS owner when I see her but she is away on vaction next week so I would love to get some opinions here from you.

P.S. by the way my daughter liked it and she said it was harder to ride this pony but very exciting :biggrin: She too had to hold and pull back in order to stay the same speed, if she loosed the rein slightly the horse sped up.
 
Ensy - it might be best next time to post a new question in a new thread? Then you may get some fresh answers.

I dont know anything about German tuition methods - and it would be hard for anyone here to comment on a particular lesson in a particular school. But if at any time you feel insecure or at risk by the demands of a lesson, you should mention it to the instructor.

Your hands should not be sore. Where you wearing gloves? One should never ride or even lead horses without gloves because of rope burn. My young grand-daughter who has just progressed to a more lively pony told me she had much the same problem as you. It means that from concentration your hands were curled too tight round the reins. You need to relax your shoulders, arms and hands - if you need grip on the reins it is your thumb that presses down to hold them.

Reading your report of this lesson, it does seem as if the first half was taught concentrating on your balance and your seat. The teacher must have felt you were both secure enough on a horse to progress to a situation where you had to learn how to ask for and control the forward movement.

It would be unusual in the UK (I think) to use one horse to teach on the lunge for longer than 30-45 minutes, so for a one hour lunge lesson you might well need to change horses.

The forward movement of the horse is signalled by using your leg to cue it. Once a horse is going forward well, some horses wont require more leg - American horses for instance are taught to continue in walk until asked to stop or to go faster. In the UK for safety, RS horses are often trained to stop altogether unless the student uses the leg aid at pretty much every step. Your German horses sound as if they are trained to keep moving forward.

But when you are a beginner your legs may move or flap against the side of the horse. This is probably what happpened with you in trot and the teacher should probably have told you to countermand that inadvertent "Forward" by using the reins as well to say "Slow". So no, I dont think it a perfect situation - if it frightened you, tell the teacher. But otherwise, no harm done.

Now as to the rein question. In any riding school where the teachers know the horses, you should do as you are told with the reins- they know the situation.

In the UK many beginners dont like to use rein contact - For years I rode with washing line reins, more like Western riding. But correct riding requires rein contact. It is only bad if you as a beginner are so unbalanced that you are using the reins to hold on. And as we have said, the first part of your lesson probably established that your balance was good enough to progress to the other horse.

The first step to stopping the horse is to pull on the reins. This is at its most basic. Later you will learn to use little touches of just one finger (half halts) to check the horse, or to use just one rein or the other -but the teacher was in a situation where she needed you to stop the canter a.s.p. So simple emergency stuff.

It is interesting that you are being taught to ride with contact almost from the start because in the end this will be much beter for you and it is better for their horses. The amount of contact and the length of the rider's reins signals to a horse the "frame" in which you want it to move. i.e. how long the horse should stretch out from nose to tail. When horses race you can see they are stretched out as far as possible. But that is not how we want to ride most of the time.
If a riding horse is to carry the weight of a person on its back, you dont want to have it streched out long like a bridge, and sagging in the middle. The idea is to have the horse squashed up a bit, into a shorter shape with its hind legs reaching forward under its body and its back rounded up to support the extra weight of the rider.
The contact on the rein and will tell the horse this is what you want and at the same time stop it charging forward like a race horse.

I have simplified this and exagerated a bit but it is an important part of formal rider education. Because when you alter the length of the horse (frame or outline) you also alter the length of the steps it is taking. At the moment you are just thinking of changing between walk, trot and canter (three gaits) but later on you will adjust the way the horse moves within walk or trot or canter.

This will be done with your seat and legs as well as your hands, but in UK rider education the hands are often neglected.

When one talks about a different horse having a different trot - I think you say, a different movement. A different gait usually implies moving between walk, trot or canter - a change of footfall.

I hope this helps - your education as a rider sounds very interesting and as a late beginner, (married to an even later beginner) I dont want to say anything that would interfere or bewilder you.
 
I know from my daughters training in France that there fairly basic but important differences between the Uk teaching and that in most parts of continental Europe.

In the UK we learn to 'balance' the horse between leg and hand so horses are accepting of leg to varying degrees from beginners horse who will check you actually mean to use your legs to the most reponsive .

In France and as far as I know, Germany as well, riders and horses are trained so you either apply leg or hand, not both at once. My experienced daughter spent the first few days in France having misunderstandings with horses over this!! I am not sure how this applies to horses used for novices but I suspect you would need to learn leg stability more quickly but I cannot see a need for constantly pulling back on any schooled horse although some schools of though apply a fair weight to the reins, possibly more than you as a beginner feels right with.

Again though I hate to be spoilsport, the whole idea of the lunge lesson that the teacher takes charge of the horse not that you hold on to slow it down.
 
Thank you what you have both said would explain a lot, yes I should have started a new thread for a new question, but your two replies give me a lot of food for thought as to what might be the misconception I have having.

It never occurred to me that the horse may be feeling my legs flapping and think I am urging on, that would explain it in trot when I think my legs move a lot when I don't mean to, but not so much in walk where I still had to pull backwards with the reins the whole time or she would spring off into trot. I don't mean just keeping a tight rein contact, I mean I had to physically pull back wards or she would spring forward. Also, the other horse before her didn't do that, he only trotted when asked and I only maintained contact not pulling back. Although, I have read on here about RS horses becoming dead to the leg and maybe the second horse was just very responsive and I was squeezing or flapping more than I know, poor horse was probably as confused as I was :spin:

When the RS owner returns from her vacation I think I will ask her to sit down with us for 5 mins and go over some of the things I am confused about, before I get up there. Her lesson was great, she controlled the speed and direction. I am reading all English stuff, and yet having German lessons, I will get a copy of the book Skib suggested. The second instructor was young and very quiet, and I hope I didn't hurt her feelings when I asked to stop before the end, I didn't feel safe. In canter I was just hanging on to the strap at the front of the straddle bouncing all over with no control at ALL and found it VERY hard to stop the horse. Being totally new to riding I don't know what is 'normal' and at least I feel I am learning tons! The best way I can describe how this horse felt was like as though I was in an automatic drive car with the accelerator revved way up and holding it on the break. Canter on the first horse felt much safer and more controlled, but I expect that was because the instructor was controlling the speed. I would really rather not canter at all, I want to learn theory and get more confidence and balance in walk and trot.

I need to get used to how to accept differences in how to ride horses in different countries thou, we just found out we are moving to Biloxi Gulf Coast of Mississippi in January Eeeek!! :unsure: We move every few years with my husband's job. Thank you again New Rider, this forum is such a god send because I have no one to discuss riding with over here.
 
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