Loaning a Four Year Old - Advice

Flipo's Mum

Flipo's Mum

Heavy owner of a Heavy
Aug 17, 2009
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Perthshire, Scotland
Friend has a 13yr old daughter who has been riding weekly at a riding school for the last four years. She has been recently helping with the backing process of a four year old pony and is now possibly going to be given the opportunity to part loan said pony for a fee each week.
Friend has asked my advice on this situation and tbh I said I wouldn't ride a four year old. I know its good experience to learn to ride a less predictable horse, but I wouldn't want to be paying to be a crash test dummy. Even though the RS owner is very risk adverse and sells any horse that shows signs of being dangerous. Its as if the horse is needing brought on, so get the girl to pay to ride it.
What do you think? Is this a good opportunity for the young girl or would you advise as I have?
 
my daughter at 13 brought on a number of youngsters for her Uncle who bought, broke and brought them on and then sold them she was always under supervision but it led to her loaning her first pony at 14 under similar cirumstances, I think much depends on Pony and rider Ability.
 
A lot depends on the terms of the loan/relationship with the RI

A lot of RS will 'use' their more experienced riders in lesson situations to help with the education of youngsters, benefits the riders as well as they learn more about schooling than they would on the older schoolmasters. If it is something along the lines of the girl pays a fee for exclusive use of and can work with the horse under supervision then this may well be a beneficial experience.

On the other hand I had a teenager come for lessons who had a similar arrangement at her previous RS, only problem was that the instructor having entered into the loan then told the girl she was far to inexperienced to ride a youngster and would just have to be happy to take care of it!!

Correctly started and followed through there is no need for anyone to play 'crash test dummy' !!
 
I think it depends on how it's meant to be - is she paying to bring it on or should she be being paid to bring it on?

Once that is clearer then thAts the answer - I have no issues with loaning a four year old - as long as the rider is suitable to the horse - it's just whether she is actually being taken advantage of really that would bother me
 
I'd be a little cautious tbh.

I used to ride at a riding school and they used to buy in horses constantly. They'd get a batch from Appleby and then some others throughout the year. These horses were generally always bought with the intention to bring them on to sell. The odd one would stay in the RS if it was good.

I loved the challenge of riding some of them (some having only driven or being youngsters needing brought on) but when I was getting put on them every lesson it started to get a bit tiresome. I felt I wasn't actually learning anything and that my riding was just getting worse.

There was never an agreement that I was helping them bring on a certain horse though. It was more a case that I'd turned up for my lesson and been told I was riding a certain horse (and then they'd mention that they only arrived X days ago and I was only the 2nd person to sit on it etc). For a while there was one horse I was riding quite often in my lessons and I was heartbroken when it was sold.

I think a few things need to be sorted before they agree to it. Are the RS planning on selling the horse? I'd be a little annoyed to be paying to school a horse a few days a week only for it to be ripped out from under me once they felt it was time to sell? I'd maybe arrange for her to have a lesson on another horse every so often because I think when working with such a green horse it can sometimes feel like 1 step forwards and 5 back, I'd be worried her confidence might take a knock or two (and not because she isn't capable but more because she might feel the horse isn't improving etc)?

I think it is a good opportunity if it is done properly but I'm not sure I'd want to pay to bring a horse on...:unsure:
 
In bringing the horse on she is also going to develop and learn as a rider so yes they have every right to charge her as they will be teaching her, she's still going to be learning.

I presume she is a good little rider and that's why she has been chosen for this horse.

I think depending on the horse I would love for my child to be able to do this. If the horse wasoobviously dangerous then no.

When I was at a riding school I used to ride a newly broken horse for a while, I learnt loads and helped to teach him too which was a great experience.
 
Yes true eml, I'm probably just a suspicious person expecting her to have to be a crash test dummy. I just don't think I'd be taking that chance. I apprecaite what you're saying lemme that if its been a way of life for the girl, that its in the blood so to speak, then it might be ok. I'm just not sure this is.

I suggested she ask what sort of level of supervision the owner would want of the situation and if this is specific to this horse. I don't think she would have sole use, the horse would still be used in the RS. I just wonder if she'd be allowed to ride whenever she wanted, or would it still be limited to lesson time. In which case she's effectively paying to look after the horse and just having a lesson as normal.

I'm sure it would be beneficial for her to learn on this pony, but also good for them that the pony is ridden and brought on. To that end, it might be a mutually beneficial arrangement. I just wonder if its not a bit weird to be paying for it, but I guess the RS have to make money somehow.
 
Shouldnt they be paying someone to be bringing on and working a inexperienced horse! Seems like a swizz to me. ( I am also of a suspicious mind)
 
At that age and younger,I very often had horses/ponys that various people paid me or my brother or both of us, to bring on from the initial breaking in to the stage of suitable for Daddy's Little Princess to ride.

I would have laughed in their face if they has asked my to pay them for the pleasure! I really can't see how this is any different TBH. The owner is taking the pee big time IMO! If the child is a good enough rider to assist with the breaking in and bringing on, then she is good enough to be paid for the job, simple as that.:wink:
 
Well, I would disagree with the being paid bit. I know these days everyone expects to be paid to ride other peoples horses, but when I was her age and younger, we broke ponies in for a chap and then rode them on, he paid for the shoes - I believe sometimes we had to contribute our pocket money, he carted us around to shows and we paid to enter the classes and then he sold them on and the next lot came through and on we went again. Idyllic days, there were about five of us, with loads of ponies, we went with our gut feeling, the ponies weren't over bred in the main, and we had lots of fun.

I would never have dreamt of being paid. In those days only very wealthy peoples children had ponies, or farmers kids, and for us it was absolute heaven. It was a good arrangement all around. He didn't pay for the breaking or the bringing on, and we classed them as our own, until they were sold.

In my experience, it is perfectly feasible. However, I do think these days maybe things have changed. Ponies seem way overbred and way too flighty these days - whether it is too much feed, or too much blood, I am not sure, but I would perhaps be a bit wary in the current day of a riding school youngster bringing on a youngster.

Edited to add, I certainly don't think the childs parents should be paying either!!!
 
As a child, I backed many a pony without paying for the experience.

As always though, as far as money goes I think it's a localised market so whether you would pay or not depends on the local market.
 
My RI said I would be fine with a 6 year old but not 4 year old. I would not want to see my 12 year old grand daughter allowed to ride so young a horse. I would have answered as you have Flipo.
If a child of this age devotes herself to educating such a young horse one needs to ask what becomes of the child's own equestrian education? This is a point well made by Rubic.
My grand daughter is currently so excited by what she is learning. She is learning to jump in the school, she rides formation with another child, she is going to extend the hacking she does, going farther with canter in much larger spaces. And then there is the ground work and bareback. And doing more canter without stirrups - I think when you are young is the time to have fun - risk-free fun - with ponies?
 
I had my first horse on loan at 13 and he was a 15.2 4 year old cob who was not suitable for the rs at the time he needed bringing on,the rs owner approached me as I liked the horse I wasn't the most experienced person but wasn't a novice,I had him on loan for 7 months and he and I came on leaps and bounds together it was the best money I ever spent gaining knowledge through both the horse and the rs.tbh in this day and age It would he daft for an rs to risk using someone as a crash dummy and I would Thu k they have seen potential in the pony and rider as a team her having helped break it in and thunk both could benefit.sounds like a great lot of learning and experience to be found for the girl.
 
If its going to be used in the riding school, why not just book it for a lesson in order to learn? I wouldn't want to pay to part loan something that someone else could get on and undo after.
 
Its not something I would want my own daughter (if I had one) to do, I personally think its a bit of a swizz. If you break it down, whichever way you look at it whether she is enjoying it or not it equates to someone paying to train someone else's horse.

I have seen many situations like this, its relatively common. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

I suppose it boils down to how much enjoyment the girl will get out of it, its hard to judge situations like this but for me its a no, I would never expect someone to pay me to school my horses.

When I was a kid we used to back and school peoples horses but it was free.
 
Ale said:
In bringing the horse on she is also going to develop and learn as a rider so yes they have every right to charge her as they will be teaching her, she's still going to be learning.
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eml said:
A lot of RS will 'use' their more experienced riders in lesson situations to help with the education of youngsters, benefits the riders as well as they learn more about schooling than they would on the older schoolmasters. If it is something along the lines of the girl pays a fee for exclusive use of and can work with the horse under supervision then this may well be a beneficial experience.
Click to expand...

Agree with both of these. I think it's a great opportunity for this girl and will be a brilliant learning experience for her, if she receives plenty of guidance and good instruction she will learn an awful lot so yes I think it's fair for them to be charging her.

eml said:
Correctly started and followed through there is no need for anyone to play 'crash test dummy' !!
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Agree with this as well. Young doesn't have to mean unpredictable or difficult. Twirl pony, at 4 years old is more than ready for a capable child to continue her education - she has learned the basics in the school, her jumping has got underway, she hacks alone and in company like a much older horse, she is "easy to do" in every way and has been straightforward from the word go. We could sell her tomorrow as a family pony, she is super. I don't know the pony in question here, so maybe it isn't as good as Twirl, but I wouldn't just assume it's a difficult pony just because it's 4!
 
It is a bit of a two way street this one, I guess it just depends how you choose to look at it:smile:

I remember a friend of mine being at a riding school, she is over in Japan atm training race horses but I remember her as a young girl, around 14 years old.

Her mother could not get her to go to school at all for love nor money and paid the £2000 fine for her not turning up. She was great with horses though and would get on anything. She had an ex racing nutcase of her own as well at the time.....called Ginger, why are they always called Ginger lol:smile:

She used to do all the new ponies at the riding school and gained much experience from it, she practically lived with the riding school owner, looked after her kids as well.

One day there was a big row, the girl was producing these ponies and looking after kids, then the riding school owner was selling them on at a profit......Her dad (heavy mob) stepped in and demanded she got a cut out of the profits. Who could blame him? the riding school owner was doing nothing really except providing facilities. OK she owned the riding school but the land and stables where rented. As I know the people who owned the place, it was nothing compared to the money she was making for sitting on her backside and letting others take risks.

In my book it almost equated to child labour. Anyhow, said riding school runner suddenly realised she could not do without the girl and had to give her a cut of the profits.

Just different things of seeing things :wink:
 
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