Laminitis

[sjp1]

After a long hack this morning was unbelievably lazy and returned home to watch Horse and Country programmes.

Interestingly there was an advert by a vets practice regarding laminitis.

And it was that it isn't grass that causes laminitis but either cushings or (and here is where I wasn't listening properly - EP something)

And because they are now offering free tests, everyone who thinks that their horse might be laminitis prone can have these simple tests for free.

Anyone else heard of this?

 

[Cortrasna]

Yes I had heard this before, but only because my vet thought at one time that might have been Solly's lameness issue - ether Cushings or EMS (Equine Metabolic Syndrome) It turned out to be neither but it did give me a little knowledge about the issues.

Interestingly it can be caused by stress too. A few years back I had to separate my donkey (Bertie) from Solly (his life long pal). He spent a few days walking the fence line and braying for Solly, and eventually got lammi....the vet advised putting him back with Solly, within a few days, despite better grazing with Solly he came sound again. He has never had an attack since.

 

[popularfurball]

Fundamentally, laminitis is a metabolic issue - an overload of toxins which the body is unable to break down or cope with. The toxins come from:

- stress
- food
- medications etc

I sort of liken the reactions like us - we worry so we get an upset tum, we eat something too much we get an upset tum, new medication which doesn't agree... Except it comes out in their feet changing. Lol.

EMS is like diabetes in humans - body is not able to deal/manage with sugar intake as effectively... Sugar is a "toxin" and hence the laminitis.

 

[notpoodle]

still, grass sure helps trigger it with fructanes etc. and a lot of lami ponies also happen to be obese and on lush pastures, which can't be a coincidence ...

but worried that programs like this will make people complacent and think they're safe only because their horse doesn't have cushings or ems.

Julia

PS: mine gets it, managed very carefully, tested for cushings twice now - negative. not ems either as no ems symptoms at all ...

 

[Trewsers]

still, grass sure helps trigger it with fructanes etc. and a lot of lami ponies also happen to be obese and on lush pastures, which can't be a coincidence ...

but worried that programs like this will make people complacent and think they're safe only because their horse doesn't have cushings or ems.

Julia

PS: mine gets it, managed very carefully, tested for cushings twice now - negative. not ems either as no ems symptoms at all ...

That's a really good point - I've had Chloe tested for Cushings and it was positive so she's now on Prascend, but I manage her weight and turnout very very carefully. I know some people as you say, might get a bit complacent and think that it couldn't happen, even if their horse tests negative.

 

[Lemme]

Having had 2 ponies with non weight related Lami then for me anything that can help prevent ponies getting it has a thumbs up.

Our Vets practice had the offer on a few months ago - the test is free but you have to pay Vets call out fees - they did the free passport signing for the Not for Human consumption as well, they have this on record now so they can prescribe meds without seeing the passport and also provide us with the repeat meds when we need it preventing the need for them to come out - we had all 4 passports updated didn't take up the Test Charlie was stressed enough with his allergy and abcesses at the time - but expect they will offer it again next year from what I hear so we are considering having all 4 tested having 2 oldies and 2 with history of lammi it makes sense, although we do restrict now and manage all 4 as lammi prone but it would be good to know if they have an underlying issue that could result in attacks/further attacks movingforwards, I have wondered if Acorn has a metabolic problem
due to his exercise inolerance and tying up, Charlie shows similar if he has exercise or turnout reduced so it wouldn't be a shock if they had a positive although management would be the same but wouldn't want meds for it at this time if it can be managed without but would help no doubt as they got older.

Our practice are pretty good and proative they have an amnesty as they call it for dog and equine vaccinations running re flu - getting the 2nd injection free only paying for 1st & 3rd on the restart.

 

[notpoodle]

dragging this one up again ...

Angel has now had the THIRD of these 'free' tests (her symptoms very much 'tick the box' for cushings!). this time it came back 'borderline'. The vet did admit that this basic test wasn't all that accurate unless the horse was definitely, obviously positive and we talked about getting a more advanced test done as apparently the free/basic test throws up quite a few false negatives ... not that helpful then. they're sponsored by the company that makes the drugs so I'm a bit cynical about the whole 'laminitis revolution' thing. clever advertising if you ask me ...

we've put her on Prascend today to see if it will make a difference. fingers crossed.

 

[Trewsers]

Hmmm interesting indeed. Our vets did make us aware from the beginning that the free testing was sponsored by the drug makers. Have to say Chloe pretty much looked like she was Cushinoid to start with, she was sluggish, heavy coated and although not laminitic, vet said it would be a good idea and that he strongly suspected it would come back positive. The prascend has helped her a lot - she is much more lively! Plus, her general coat and itchings are a lot better too - as they were all part of the Cushings.

It is annoying when things come back boderline tho - one case for me is Storm's recent illness - we had her tested for Lyme's disease and it came back borderline. Doesn't make much difference now as her symptoms have all but cleared up, but it would have been nice to know for definite!

I hope the prascend works for you. Are you giving just one a day?

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

Aimee and Sasa both came down with toxic laminitis when they were injured and fighting infections.

Rose is a laminitic, tested neg for Cushings, she was carefully managed for years, and still got it. As her liver is shot, due to poisoning, and she won't make old bones, I have this summer just let her be a horse - she is actually leaner than she has ever been, if anything a bit poor for going into winter as a 26 year old.

I often think it is a total lottery, Leo is fat as a pudding and needs to lose weight, but his feet are perfect.

 

[popularfurball]

I think a "clinical trial" of medication is as useful if not more useful - for me, having had a similar testing process to you, I think the visible symptoms far outweigh the blood results.

The samples have to be collected, chilled and spun and all sorts in certain orders - stress can influence them too - for me, the reliability of the sample being taken to the lab the same way every time is impossible which renders the tests unreliable.

 

[Wally]

try to think of laminitis as a symptom rather than a disease in itself. It's like colic. There are a 101 types and causes and "cures" or should I say management regimes.