laminitis not getting better

lamprellsarah

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a pony at our stables had to be brought in because of laminitis she has a history of it, she is 23ish, she is stabled and turned out in the manage and is having hay and a special diet. she has been put on bute and a week later she is still the same as soon as the bute wears off she is very very lame!!!
she looks awful now! and she may have cushings! she is constantly having dirarrea, how long will it take to clear up?? evryone seems so worried about her as if it might not!!
what is the out look for her???
 

Sharon H

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A lot depends on how severe the attack was and whether there have been any major changes in the structure of the foot. My pony was very bad and it took about 3/4 months to get him comfortable. Why don't you have a look at www.horse-talk.co.uk they have a lot of laminitis info on there and loads of links to site on both cushings and laminitis.
 

Pam F

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It took my horse nearly 9 months to come completely sound and he was not a really severe case but did show slight changes. As yours could be a cushings case it needs blood tests to confirm and then appropriate treatment - I believe there are some new thoughts on treatment for these horses. If it is Cushings related no amount of dieting and normal laminitis treatment will help but some horses do respond very well to the newer cushings treatments (which are very expensive). I found the Laminitis Trust very helpfull to talk to on the telephone.
 

Wally

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An up to date farrier can do a laminitus trim on the feet. It's drastic but will limit the damage and help releive pain.
 

Maci

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Laminitis Trim

Wally- What kind of cut can the farrier do to help the laminits? If I'm thinking the same, I think that's what we got for one of our old school horses when he got laminitis! It required a lot of attention, consistency and care, but he got better in the end!

Maci :)
 

Wally

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It's very drastic, the farrier teaching me is trying to convince me it's for the best if I come across a lamanitic horse. Thankfully I've not had to do this yet! I dread the day I may need to.

In a nutshell, it involves rasping the whole of the front of the foot away thus releiving the pressure of the laminae. It needs to go right down to the sensitive parts and may bleed. Once the pressure is releived the damage is limited and the foot has a better chance of recovery . The laminations are not so liable to separation and may stop the pedal bone from separating and rotating. It also helps with walking, breakover is made easier for the sore horse.
 

ponyvet

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The cut you are discussing is called a dorsal wall resection and is a very drastic way of treating laminitis, but it works. It needs to be done under veterinary supervision as it must be done using pain relief and a tourniquet.

The pony in question may actually not require a DWR as laminitis can be recovered in most cases. You should bear in mind that it takes between 9 months and 1 year for the hoof wall to grow down from the coronary band to the ground, so any work involving damage to the hoof wall will take a long time to heal.

You are right that she may have cushings , especially if she is a hariy pony with diarrhoea and laminitis. In that case a DWR is not really ideal as ponies with Cushings have a poor immune system and will get further infections and take longer to recover. It is probably best for you to talk to your vet as there are alternatives to BUTE that you could try. However a week is not a long time for a pony on bute with laminitis and i would normally expect it to take a while for the inflammation to go down. You may also find that she is never sound when off bute and that she may need to have some forever. Some vets will be afraid to do this as bute can cause stomach ulcers or renal problems if prescribed on a long term basis, but at low doses most horses of her age would be fine.

You could also try asking for ACP tablets, as at low doses they can increase the blood flow to the hoof and the laminae, and will help speed up the healing process. This is usually a dose which is too small to cause sedation.:D
 

ros

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Wally and Ponyvet:

Are we talking about two separate processes here? I'd understood that the resection is usually done where there's an accumulation of fluid, and the pedal bone has become detached from the laminae; I thought what Wally was taking about was rasping back the hoof wall where, in chronic founder cases, it has become convex. I think both these processes can help restore the angle of the hoof wall in line with that of the pedal bone, but at different stages of the illness.

Also, how often are heart-bar shoes or other forms of frog-support used?
 

ponyvet

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DWR or toe rasping are both used in cases of laminitis, and it usually depends on what the vet and farrier decide between them, though a DWR isn't usually performed until much later in the stage of the disease. There are some vets who suggest that it should be tried earlier to limit the extent of pain these ponies come into but I'm not sure myself.


I have used both heart bar shoes and support pads, and really think each case should be judged on its own merits.

The australians have an interesting alternative to DWR or toe rasping (which in my opinion doesn't raeally help much unless the horse has very poor foot balance in the first place). They use something like a dremel to carve a groove into the dorsal wall of the hoof in a semicircular shape. This then separates new growing hoof wall from the toe section, without exposing too much soft tissue. The new hoof wall can grow down from the top in a more normal fashion. This is supposedly less traumatic. I haven't had a case suitable to try it on yet so I'll have to withold judgement for the moment.
 

Maci

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Wally

Yep! That sounds just about right! That's what we did, and it does require time and attention, but it does help relieve the soreness, and help them get better in the end!

Thanks!
Maci :)
 

Wally

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Ponyvet, you are the first vet I have come across, for a long, long time who actually works with a farrier. Our vets run a mile and hands over totally to the farrier for foot problems, who, thankfuly, has a much more up to date and thorough knowledge of modern techniques.

Some vets don't seem to keep up to date on theraputic trimming and shoeing. But our vets are not specialist horse vets and one in particular would die a thousand deaths if asked to trim a horse's foot:D ;)
 

Jobi-Wan Kenobi

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We were fortunate

I managed to catch Smartie's laminitis right at the beginning, she was literally barely sore on her feet but I knew straight away what it was. So I phoned in sick (small white lie ;) ) and got the vet straight out. He checked for abcesses in the white line and was satisfied it was indeed laminitis.

The main thing that I was really grateful for was that he went through with me and made sure I understood everything (in laymans terms) I needed to know about laminitis and why he was treating her as he was. He put her on a bute paste for 5 days and some tablets (which she wouldn't touch unless they were crushed and put in diabetic's jam sandwiches :rolleyes: ). She also needed to be moved from the field to the barn and was to be walked three times a day for five minutes to get the circulation going in her feet.

So with spending a fortune in taxi's to get to the barn and to work in time we managed it and all told it was about three weeks before we could move her to her current yard where she is blissfully happy with three laminitic shetlands for company :)

But we were the lucky ones and although I tried to restrict her grazing with a muzzle on during the day, we still got caught out.

Our vet was also brilliant by giving me his home phone number and a specific time to call him when he knew he would be there and didn't waste his time or my money by coming out unnecessarily.

All I can say is that it will take time and patience before your pony will get better and let's keep our fingers crossed that it doesn't happen again ;) .

Jo

PS it's great to see a vet taking part in the forum, you're the first one I've seen and it really reassures me to know that you're there! ;)
 

lamprellsarah

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thanks thats really interesting, luckily we don't think it will resort to that!!!:)
we have had the vet and farrier in the vet said he doesn't think she did any look term damage she is on 1 bute a day, but is looking happier than she was earlier this week, she is not leaning back as much, the farrier took off her shoes and is going to come back in a week to see how she is copeing before he thinks about doing anything esle, but he things that taking off her shoes and keeping her in the manage should make her feel more comfortable anyway.
thanks for the advice :) really informative
 

leo

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Its good you pulled the shoes, they cause pain to a foundered pony. Bute will cause the manure to be very runny. As long as she is on bute the problem will most likely stay. Feed only dry meadow hay, no lucerne or fresh pasture. Its hard but you must keep them moving. They need to be stabled/yarded to keep them off the grass, but they need you to walk them as much as possible. Hose the feet as often as you can, the cool helps. If she is cresty in the neck, epson salts works to get rid of this. people also recommend dolomite. My pony Is a high risk founderer, he came foundered and after several years of this had the severe hoof cut you mentioned. It was cruel, and he still 10 years later fears the farrier. It may work, but try other things first. There are some good sites about feet trim for this. It will take time, and a lot of effort walking her. But the more work you put in the better she will recover. My pony was so badly foundered when I got him it took 12 months. He will founder easily if I would let him, but his feet are now good.
 

ros

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According to the Laminitis Clinic, walking a horse with laminitis is not always a good idea, especially in the initial stages, and DEFINITELY not before a vet has assessed the case. If the foot has "foundered" (which basically means the pedal bone has become detached from the hoof wall to varying degrees because of the break-down of the tissues that support it) there's a very real danger that forcing the horse to move about will cause irreparable damage.

They also suggest that the state of the feet must determine whether or not the shoes are removed - obviously they would need to be removed if the feet were badly overgrown, but if the sole is flat and/or the hoof wall is eroded this can put a lot of pressure on the pedal bone if it has dropped at all. In such cases it may be better to keep the shoe on. Frog support is often required whether or not the shoe is removed.
 

lamprellsarah

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well she hasn't got any better yet, the owner has walked her a bit even when she is turned out in the manege because she is old she gets stiff and she is frightened to move so she is seizeing up.
shes having only hay and a special chaff, she has just had her shoes back on and she seems better with them on rather than off!!!
they want to cut down on her bute but we are just seeing how she goes! her tolilet is not bad actually not that runny at all!!
 

TBgrl

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foundered pony

:( best wishes

We just lost the sweetest tb mare to a vicious case of founder.

I think their state of mind is an important thing to consider. Sarcee got twice daily massages over her whole body concentrating on her hind end which took most of the pressure.

frequent small feedings and treats helped keep her mind off the pain.

Good luck

Sarcees friend Susan
 

lamprellsarah

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just as an unpdate 2 weeks ago we started to see a massive improvement and she was walking a lot better, looking better and came off her brute. a week ago she started to go back into the hardly any grass at all paddock just to give her a break from the manege, and know she has just started very light exercise like walking around just to get her really moving again and to prevent the lamintis coming back!!!
anyway thanx for all the advice you guys are great :D
 
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