Jumping- In the 1930's, ( photos and video)
- Thread starter newforest
- Start date
I can't find anything in relation to the first seat in the photo but research from the second suggested that the rider lifts the horse over the fence.
The combo of the two I believe was later called the two point that we use today ( those of us that can do the two point) thinking of myself here because with a short neck I do struggle with the hands forward and fold. However that's why I like the no standard seat because all horses have a different neck length and to be forwards needs me to do a V with my elbows down.
I definately have photos of myself doing the first photo.
This is really interesting @newforest. I have 3 photos of my late father in law jumping, he was a National Hunt jockey in his late teens/early 20s in the late 60’s / early 70s. His position is really crouched, with only the upper part of the lower leg in contact with the saddle, and the inside of the wrists on the horse’s neck. It looks very precarious!
You might need to read below more than once, I have and I am guessing the updated terminology.
Direct quote from the book.
The Gallop
The different speeds in the gallop are called The school Gallop ( collected), The Canter, The Field Gallop and The Run
The school gallop is very slow motion.
"I think he is talking about the various canters that we now call collected, working, medium and extended?
He talks about the leading leg which makes sense for canter, but four tempos whereas I thought it was three beats. However he says the off the ground moment of suspension is a silent tempo.
The Run has five tempos, so maybe that's the gallop and not extended or they didn't have a medium.
Direct quote from the book.
The Gallop
The different speeds in the gallop are called The school Gallop ( collected), The Canter, The Field Gallop and The Run
The school gallop is very slow motion.
"I think he is talking about the various canters that we now call collected, working, medium and extended?
He talks about the leading leg which makes sense for canter, but four tempos whereas I thought it was three beats. However he says the off the ground moment of suspension is a silent tempo.
The Run has five tempos, so maybe that's the gallop and not extended or they didn't have a medium.
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Love this next bit.
Enjoy.
A jump measuring 4ft will not present a serious obstacle to any horse, and we may expect any riding type, with very little training to clear 3ft6.
Less than 50% of this type will be able to jump 4ft and only 5% will go on to jump 4-5ft.
Three distinct factors determine the horses ability, speed, spring and balance. ( speed possibly now known as impulsion?)
If you hear a really really loud thud that's when I told the cob and she passed out.
Enjoy.
A jump measuring 4ft will not present a serious obstacle to any horse, and we may expect any riding type, with very little training to clear 3ft6.
Less than 50% of this type will be able to jump 4ft and only 5% will go on to jump 4-5ft.
Three distinct factors determine the horses ability, speed, spring and balance. ( speed possibly now known as impulsion?)
If you hear a really really loud thud that's when I told the cob and she passed out.
Seems odd if he's meaning what we now call canter as he does mention both canter and gallop. Would the school gallop be what we now call a hand gallop? A field gallop being a normal gallop and a run at racing pace? It's difficult to guess without seeing the full context.
Still no clue here your right it does allude more to canter but calling it gallop, so confusing.
your right it does allude more to canter but calling it gallop, so confusing.
Yep I think you are right.Still no clue here
The school gallop is what we call the hand gallop seen at shows, the field gallop is the hunting pace that you see at hunter trials, out hunting, so normal, canter is canter, the run is the flat out top speed for racing? Even racing has more than one gallop, they exercise at a gallop but it's not the full on win a race type. That's usually the last furlong.
Have we sussed it because he is approaching these jumps from a gallop so my guess there is the hunting/xc controlled type.
Didn't you say earlier they used to just charge the fence and try to hang on? Perhaps they are still at the stage of thinking speed helps the horse jump?
Yes they did early on because no one knew how to sit either and stay on.
This book was written ten years after he set up the riding school in New York. It was aimed at riders who didn't really have the time to get fully fit so he needed to devise some sort of guidance for them.
To quote-
'speed when used alone is sufficient to clear about 3ft. This will differ according to the individual differences in the gallop and the size of the horse. Early take off.
Spring only steep accent and descent, close take off'
^^ yep had that with the cob trotting in and going ping cleared it!
Could his definition of gallop in relation to jumping be the hunting pace which is a gallop but not flat out.
'a horse approaching jump at a fast gallop with a long stride, if he misfugures the point of take off, will make a big mistake. If you can control the stide you could minimize faults'
The diagram.
'You need to teach the horse balance as speed and spring is inborn'
Now where the cob is concerned speed isn't inborn and I have had to teach that as well.
'using balance in addition to speed and spring, the horse can jump higher and wider with a minimum expenditure of energy'
Ah now she will be keen to learn about that! She does enjoy her jumping but I am always mindful of her overall proportions and keep things on the low side.
'You need to teach the horse balance as speed and spring is inborn'
Now where the cob is concerned speed isn't inborn and I have had to teach that as well.
'using balance in addition to speed and spring, the horse can jump higher and wider with a minimum expenditure of energy'
Ah now she will be keen to learn about that! She does enjoy her jumping but I am always mindful of her overall proportions and keep things on the low side.
Any further photos I upload are from the courtesy of Boots and Saddles Riding School that the author run.
Pre body protectors.
Part of me thinks it's fantastic that there was a riding school with capable horses that could jump these fences, then the other part of me wonders whether I would have had the guts anyway!!
The riders position is correct. Observation that the stirrups look long but he/she might have long legs.
This jump is 4ft because I have the how to make it at the back of the book.
Going on from the height of the horse question @Jane&Ziggy raised I think this shows that probably the author is referring to 16hh.
If he is military background I suspect these were all a minimum of 16hh so he might have based his knowledge on what he had been riding.
So, on that basis his sentence for ponies might read.
A jump measuring 3ft will not present a serious obstacle to any pony, and we may expect any riding type, with very little training to clear 2ft6.
Less than 50% of this type will be able to jump 3ft and only 5% will go on to jump 3-4ft?
Pre body protectors.
Part of me thinks it's fantastic that there was a riding school with capable horses that could jump these fences, then the other part of me wonders whether I would have had the guts anyway!!
The riders position is correct. Observation that the stirrups look long but he/she might have long legs.
This jump is 4ft because I have the how to make it at the back of the book.
Going on from the height of the horse question @Jane&Ziggy raised I think this shows that probably the author is referring to 16hh.
If he is military background I suspect these were all a minimum of 16hh so he might have based his knowledge on what he had been riding.
So, on that basis his sentence for ponies might read.
A jump measuring 3ft will not present a serious obstacle to any pony, and we may expect any riding type, with very little training to clear 2ft6.
Less than 50% of this type will be able to jump 3ft and only 5% will go on to jump 3-4ft?
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This is the same picket fence being jumped as was used above. You might notice that's it's not being supported by the brush fence, but is in fact being propped up by that piece of wood!
Both photos are of a female rider but I can't say if they are the same person.
More speed less balance so the horse hasn't stretched it's neck so her hands are correct position.
Both photos are of a female rider but I can't say if they are the same person.
More speed less balance so the horse hasn't stretched it's neck so her hands are correct position.
newrider.com