I'm considering buying a horse

K

KarlR

Guest
I've always planned to buy a horse but to wait until I had a house with more land.

However, a horse that I know has come up for sale and it's perhaps the only horse that could make me break my resolve! So, here are the details. Sorry if I'm a bit sketchy on some of them - I haven't started discussions with the owner yet...

The horse: A chestnut gelding, TB X (Not sure what yet: too fine to be ID); about 8-9 years; very fine; superb temperament; very forward going; kind; extremely attentive at all times; bouncy trot but other paces excellent; oodles of impulsion; 16.2hh (guess!); been used for hunting and working livery in school; a genuinely high quality horse. My favorite horse - ever. I have ridden him extensively in the school. My wife has ridden him too and thinks that he is wonderful.


Bad points: Tendency to rush; sometimes resistant to the bit; average level of schooling only - I would need to improve this; slightly unusual back conformation: a little straighter than normal; price is higher than I would have liked - I would have to make a lower offer. (Apparently the price reflects the hand made horse-specific saddle which is exceptional quality.) If I buy it I will be much poorer - but I'll soon need to buy a horse for my wife too!<g> I'll need to keep it in livery (working?) for now.


Me: Have been riding (2-3 times per week) for 10 months plus holidays; very confident; don't always have great technique.<g> Some experience of grooming, stable management and basic horsecare. The horse will probably never succeed at dressage, but that's not really important to me - longer term I'd like to try jumping or possibly cross-country. In the short term he would be hacked several times per week and some gentle jumps.


Questions:

What do you folks think? (Gut reaction)

What questions should I ask the owner?

Any questions that I should ask myself?

Does anyone have experience of keeping a horse in working livery?

Any pitfalls that I should avoid in making the purchase?

Any general comments at all would be most welcome. I have a meeting with the owners' agent Sunday. I'd like to be as prepared as possible. Two days to go and already I'm an emotional wreck! ;-)

Karl R
 
Thanks Sarah. Some useful points there.

Double is a little more than I can afford, but then my initial estimate isn't exactly low!<g>

I had no illusions about skipping the vetting - I will certainly follow that through.

I can see that working livery terms and conditions may be problematic. Perhaps I'll try that for a while and see how it works out.

If the existing livery doesn't work out then I do have a good alternative location but I'm hesitant to move him since he appears happy where he is at present.

Thanks again.

Karl R
 
Hi Karl

16.2 chestnut gelding... lucky you! Sounds like you know the horse pretty well but a few things you might ask are:

How well does he box / travel? What is he like with the farrier? When was he last wormed and what with? Has he had flu / tetanus jabs? What is he like with other horses in the field? What is he like on his own? Does he have any stable vices? What are his stable manners like? Does he hack out in company? Does he hack out on his own? How long have his present owners had him and how much do they know of his history.


I agree wholeheartedly with Sarah that you should have him vetted before you buy. You mentioned his straight back and the hand-made saddle. Speaking as a confirmed cynic this would make me a little suspicious about his back and I would ask the vet about it.

Hopefully all will go well and he'll pass everything with flying colours.

Good luck and keep us posted. :)

Tikki
 
hello!

Firstly have you worked out the running costs of having a horse? If you work it out then double it, you will be about right!

Do you have lots of spare time at the moment to take on looking after a horse? If your horse is in working livery, you will still want to be with it about 1hr a day (assuming that the yard do all the mucking out, etc, if not, change that to about 3hrs!)

The most important thing about buying a horse is to have it vetted. This will cost you about 60 - 100 quid, but is DEFINITELY worth it - even if you know the horse and owner well. Tell the vet what you would like to use the horse for and they will say whether physically it is up to it.

Working livery can work well - or it can be a nightmare! You will have to set out how much the horse is used by the yard - so that you don't turn up to ride and find your horse is out! Also you say that the horse is not very well schooled - having a lot of beginners riding him while you are trying to work him properly can confuse the horse - one day he is allowed to get away with stuff and the next he isn't. It really depends on the nature of the horse whether this works or not.

I hope your meeting goes well on sunday, do tell me how it goes!

bye!
 
Hi Karl!

How did the meeting go on Sunday????

Marlena.
 
Hi Marlena,

I'm sorry to say that it didn't go well in my opinion. That said, everything that I asked about the horse reassured me about his future potential.

The problem was that the woman selling the horse is the owner of the stables where I ride. She runs a large number of hunts from there and the horse that I wanted to purchase is in working livery and apparently one of their best hunters.

However, their livery charges are over £80+VAT per week for working; £110+VAT per week for full livery and my budget is about £65 per week which is normal around here. They also insist that horses in working livery are hired out to hunt by them! Any injuries go onto your insurance; any proceeds from the hunt rental (every 2-4 weeks) go to them. There's also no concessions for using your own horse in lessons, so I can't even save money there!

I also felt that the £2750 asked was too high and offered £2500.

I will not get an answer until at least Saturday. Despite my feeling that the offer is reasonable and having confidence in the horse passing the vetting I feel at present that it will not go through. I feel that the agent will tell the owner not to sell - because the agent will lose a revenue earning hunter - although I doubt that it will be phrased that way!

Perhaps I'm too honest - if I had said no problem to the livery charges and that I was delighted to have him hunt I would have probably got her to recommend the sale.

So, all in all I feel pretty sad right now. Ah well. I'll know Saturday. :-(

I'm going our for a day ride with Mike on Friday, so perhaps that will cheer me up? :)

Thanks Marlena,

I'll let you know!

Karl R
 
Hi Karl,

Sorry it didn't go briliantly on Sunday. i think you are right to be hesitant - it looks like you would be paying a lot of money to have a horse which you will not get to ride at all in the winter! If you do go through, i would INSIST that if the horse is injured when they are using it, they pay the vets bill - this could be hard to prove though, they could claim the horse injured itself in the field or whatever.

I hope your hack with Mike went well. Remember that it is very unusual to end up buying the first horse you try! Good luck with looking for another

bye!
 
Hi Karl!

I'm sorry about how things went. Although I know next to nothing about the general conditions of working livery, I would agree with Sarah that they should pay the vet's bill for any injuries they cause. I asked around and that seems to be the approach here -- at least on paper! If they don't agree, perhaps it would still be an option to move him (providing that they have different conditions at the alternative location).

I hope you'll find out more on Saturday, and even if things didn't work out, you'll still be able to ride him, which should be a consolation...

Good luck!
Marlena
 
Sorry to sound negative, but it sounds like if they do decide to sell to you, you'd be badly ripped off. You'd be paying a lot of money for a horse that someone else would be riding (and you'd have no control over who would be riding him). The injuries bill coming out of your insurance is laughable (if it wasn't so sick). You probably wouldn't even have much say in how he was kept. You might find yourself in the ignominious position of having to ask permission to ride your own horse. Pity, because he sounds like a nice horse. BUT, there are lots of nice horses out there, without such binding strings attached. Horse prices are so low at the moment that there are some serious bargains about. I'd keep looking, if I were you... Good luck!

Myrmex
 
I'm sorry to say that the final conclusion to this story is a negative one. :(

The supposed agent has acted in her own interests as I suspected that she would. During the last month or so, this horse which is on working livery has been vital to the running of her school since he is one of the few safe, big horses that she has there.

I discovered through a wierd coincidence that the agent had told her friends that she would never sell to someone who might take the horse to another stable - because she would lose use of the horse.

When I found this out, I pressured her again to get in contact with the owner on our behalf. She (effectively) refused, saying that rather than let me buy him (knowing that I might take him to another stable) she would buy him herself.

As I see it, the bottom line is that the owner wants to sell but she has appointed an agent who is trying to block the sale because she gets to use the horse free until it is sold. If it looks like a sale is unstoppable, then she will buy the horse herself rather than allow him to be sold.

Not very ethical eh? No-one knows the onwers details (apart from this "agent), so there's no way of bypassing her either.

I'll have to look for another horse, which is a shame because this one is almost perfect. I'm sure not all sellers in the horse world are unethical...are they? ;)

[This message has been edited by KarlR (edited 09 July 1999).]
 
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