I need serious emotional help.

Renna

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Jul 18, 2021
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I'm not even bothering to introduce myself to the board in general yet because the last couple of months have been so bad I'm honestly wondering if I'll ever ride again. I want to, but, I've been so thoroughly soured by my experiences with riding lessons that I don't know if I can.

I'm in my 30s and have always loved horses and always wanted to learn how to ride. It didn't happen until I was in my 20s and able to scrape enough money together to go once a week to a stable that was iffy. The instructors were nice enough, but not safety conscious (wearing a helmet wasn't required), and since I did small group lessons I didn't learn a ton. I had to quit for financial reasons after a bit over a year and at that point I could saddle a horse, with some help, but didn't know how to clean hooves or bridle them etc. I was also taught almost exclusively Western riding, and frankly wasn't very good - I couldn't feel the horse moving under the saddle and it was nearly impossible for me to actually squeeze the horse because the leathers over the stirrups were too thick for my leg muscles to handle. In sum total I'd say I managed to learn how to do a decent posting trot on a not-bouncy horse and that's about it.

Fast forward another 2 years. I've moved 450 miles away and I decide to try again, this time with private lessons with an ARIA-certified instructor. I learned a ton. I switched to English style and was amazed by how much more comfortable it was, and over a year got better and better. Still not amazing but I was definitely making progress and having a blast doing it. Even my bad lessons were good days because I learned something from sucking. My instructor was sweet and supportive, even when she criticized and made me try things again. I tried hard and never complained about being criticized. I felt cared for. One of my virtues is that I'm mostly aware of whether I'm actually doing something well or not; I loathe fake praise and I appreciate being corrected as long as it's constructive and not "no, you moron, not like that." I loved the "ponies" (none of which were actually ponies) and the barn cat and lessons were the highlight of my week.

And then I fell. My first-ever fall happened while doing a warm and fuzzy gentle trot. My mare saw....something (no idea what, it was a warm sunny day, blue skies, silent), and went from a trot into standing stock-still. I fell toward her withers, and it would have been fine except she then jumped sideways a millisecond later while I was still unbalanced. I flew off and landed on an outstretched arm.

Short story, the elbow on my dominant arm was completely shattered. First fall, first time I've broken a bone. I needed a six-hour surgery to reconstruct the joint and have so much metal on either side of the joint that it seriously looks like the surgeon built the Eiffel Tower in my arm. Surgeon said it was the most complicated reconstruction he's ever done and that it looked like someone straight up took a chisel and sheared part of the bone out of place. He also said that I'll regain a lot of normal function but will probably never be able to fully straighten it again and also that it will be arthritic/stiff the rest of my life.

That wasn't even what ruined riding for me. I didn't blame the horse, who was very apologetic when she figured out that she'd tossed me, and I didn't blame the teacher because it was literally the freakiest of freak accidents. She couldn't have done anything. I may have been saved if I'd been deeper in the saddle, or curled up when I flew off, but who knows. I've said repeatedly that I know no one is at fault and I'm not scared of the horse; if anything I'm frightened of my own rotten luck (what if next time I break my neck? Jeez).

What ruined it was what happened this week, about 2.5 months after I fell. Instructor sent a text asking me to check in. I responded that my brace was gone, but arm was doing better and I could move it much better. And then I mentioned insurance. Summarized: "I told my insurance that my accident happened at a place of business, and they just sent me a survey. I doubt they can hold you responsible because A, B, C, but if there's an investigation will it hike up your stable insurance rates? I'm suspicious of insurance company ethics."

My "sweet, supportive" teacher went from Jekyll to Hyde in 10 seconds. Left me a voicemail saying that if she paid for every fall she would have to charge $250 per lesson and instead charges "$40 f****in dollars." Telling me to leave it alone. Then sent two furious texts in a row saying she doesn't deserve to be sued because "I fell from a standstill" and "have soft bones."

She couldn't have hurt me more if she'd slapped me in the face. I've not once suggested I planned to sue and think it's damn immoral when A. it really wasn't anyone's fault and B. I can't exactly afford my bill but I have decent insurance and with a payment plan I've set up I can manage it. At most, I was considering asking if she would be able to contribute a little to my $90/month bill since it seemed like she felt really bad, but I was still only considering it and a "Sorry, I really can't afford it" would have been enough for me. I know caring for horses is expensive. It's difficult to explain but she said things like I was one of the most pleasant people she'd ever taught (which frankly I didn't take as flattery because I did legitimately try to be a good student with a good attitude), as well as other things...basically having my head bitten off called into question nearly everything she'd said to me over the last year, about me and about other people. And also, why the incredibly defensive response to a question about insurance? She's been teaching almost 40 years; shouldn't she be able to walk me through how to report an incident to my insurance without unfairly implicating her? Has she done something that she ought to be sued for? Another woman fell a few months before mine and broke several ribs, but I was told that the stable insurance and the woman's health insurance together would pay for everything. Was that a lie? Was that woman suing? She told me after that fall that she was "so happy" that the bill was taken care of and that she'd have wanted them to sue her to get it covered because she felt so bad. That had to have been a lie.

I am too old to take BS. I got pushed around a lot as a teen, but I'm sick and tired of it and I'm not taking it now. My own mother doesn't get to talk to me that way. The next day I texted back to tell her that I didn't plan to sue and never had, but also that her response to a completely reasonable question wasn't remotely appropriate and that she'd shown me who she was and I believed her. I told her not to contact me again. I then blocked her number and email address so I wasn't subjected to any more raging and/or emotional manipulation. (disclaimer for honesty: My response was very cold but no swearing or name-calling. Still, no warmth whatsoever).

I've spent the last few days second-guessing myself (is it normal? Is there some unspoken rule at stables that you aren't honest about falls with health insurance? Was I wrong?), being angry/bitter, and frankly, grieving. Grieving a relationship I thought I had, grieving the horses I'm not going to see again, grieving a fully-working arm, and grieving any future chance of riding again. I was willing to try it one more time once my arm healed up to the point where a horse ducking its head down to scratch a knee wouldn't cause searing pain when the reins were inevitably yanked from my hands, but I do not trust this person any longer. I already have issues trusting people from a long past of bullying and I don't know how far this will set me back. It would be different, I think, if this had clearly been just a business relationship from the start, but she did things like end all messages with "love" that have left me very confused and feeling used and a little fawned over, which I despise. If you think I'm that awful don't fake caring about me, holy crap.

Was I wrong? I'm not above sending a card to apologize for being too harsh if that's the case, but I still don't trust this woman and regardless of whether this was an unspoken rule or not, I still think her response was inappropriate. No one told me. I didn't know. And I wanted to work with her.

If I get the courage to try riding again, how can I find a good teacher? 2/2 failures has left me so discouraged and tired and sad.
 

carthorse

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Jan 6, 2006
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You have been very unlucky.

It sounds like you're in the States and I don't know what the situation is over there so I can't really offer advice. Here it's a legal requirement for riding schools to be licensed and insured, but from her reaction I would suspect she doesn't have insurance. I don't know how it works there, but here if your insurance decides to claim against her insurance there's not a lot you can do about it - you claim off your insurance and they then decide it there's a case for them to claim against hers. Whatever the situation her reaction was wrong and I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

I don't know how you'd find a new school over there, is there an equivalent to our BHS that inspects and approves schools and you can look for one in your area?

I hope you heal up quickly and your insurance sorts this out without any further hassle for you.
 
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Doodle92

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There is usually a clause somewhere that says along the lines of “riding is high risk and you take part at your own risk and we are not liable for any injuries”. Although I suppose here we have the nhs paying for treatment rather than needing insurance to cover.

Where I worked (a riding school) there was a form that had to be filled in before the first ride. The clause was in that paperwork and had to be signed first. Your fall was unfortunate, rather than fault/neglect by the school, which you acknowledge yourself, did you fill in a form such as this? Maybe instructor just panicked, and while not acceptable the way she replied, and it has nothing to do with no insurance and she perhaps now feels awful.

Re riding again. Don’t rule it out. There is nothing that anyone did wrong and sadly injuries happen. I am not trying to dismiss your accident in anyway. My worst accidents were 1) warming up for dressage and my horse spooked. Smashed my hand which needed operations plural and took a year to fix 2) my horse (the safest horse in the world) tripped when cantering and I broke my sternum landing on my head. What I am meaning is it happens. Sometimes it take a huge deal of taking a deep breath and trying again but it is possible.

I not sure how to find a new instructor. Do you have any local Facebook groups or a sort of council licensing you could ask?
 

Skib

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Dec 21, 2003
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I am in UK. Even here where riding schools are licenced and often registered by the BHS it is just about impossible for a school to admit liability.
I have had occasional lessons in USA and in the USA students are obliged to sign a waiver far stronger than any risk acceptance in the UK.

I know one RI in the UK who was sued, and her insurance company and the clients insurance company disputed it out. But a horse spooking in the school in walk or trot is a fairly normal occurence (I mean it has happened to me at least twice) and both times I fell with no injury.

Of course any riding school owner will be defensive if they believe that an insurance claim may be made against them. It could cost them their livelihood.

Learning to ride usually involves falls (my mother said years ago) and you usually get up and get on again. If you suffered a particular injury you might need to claim your were given an unsuitable horse or should have been led round the school.

However, riders I know have had to stop riding when their bones became too fragile. No one on a forum can give you a medical opinion as whether or not your own condition made it dangerous to ride.

I have had one fall where bad practice and negligence were a factor. I have not pursued the matter as it was at a RS where I had ridden for many years but I have not yet returned to that school. If I were to go back, I would stipulate that the situation was never repeated. I live in an area with many riding schools and there are three or four where I know I will be safe. If you do want to resume riding, make a choice bearing safety in mind.

If I were desperate for a refund of my prepaid rides at that school and the school refused to refund, in the UK we have a small claims court to claim such small sums. In the UK too we have a National Health Service so there are no treatment costs and most riding falls result only in possible loss of earnings.

The questions that I would ask myself, if I were you.
1. Am I physically fit to ride and if so in what setting?
2. Do I want to ride in that safe setting, accepting the expense and the risk?
3 Can I afford to pay for it?

If you take the RS to court to get damages, I suspect you are very unlikely to be accepted as a student elsewhere in your neighbourhood. Every one falls when learning to ride and if this was in the UK you would be very unlikely to win compensation from the riding school.

Arm and wrist bones are most likely to break in a fall and apparently that is because it is instinct to put out an arm to break one's fall. My reactions are far too slow. I wear a body protector and have always tried to hang onto the reins. Thus I tend to fall on my back with my hands in the air and usually bang the back of my head.

To be honest, I can go on riding only because I am still well and active. It is luck. I would not go on riding if my bones were fragile. It would frighten me.

If I were in the USA I would ride Western and go on trail rides just in walk and trot. I love quarter horses and trail ride horses know their job. The Western saddle holds one more safely on the horse and there is much less pressure than riding English.
 

Renna

New Member
Jul 18, 2021
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There is usually a clause somewhere that says along the lines of “riding is high risk and you take part at your own risk and we are not liable for any injuries”. Although I suppose here we have the nhs paying for treatment rather than needing insurance to cover.

Where I worked (a riding school) there was a form that had to be filled in before the first ride. The clause was in that paperwork and had to be signed first. Your fall was unfortunate, rather than fault/neglect by the school, which you acknowledge yourself, did you fill in a form such as this? Maybe instructor just panicked, and while not acceptable the way she replied, and it has nothing to do with no insurance and she perhaps now feels awful.

Re riding again. Don’t rule it out. There is nothing that anyone did wrong and sadly injuries happen. I am not trying to dismiss your accident in anyway. My worst accidents were 1) warming up for dressage and my horse spooked. Smashed my hand which needed operations plural and took a year to fix 2) my horse (the safest horse in the world) tripped when cantering and I broke my sternum landing on my head. What I am meaning is it happens. Sometimes it take a huge deal of taking a deep breath and trying again but it is possible.

I not sure how to find a new instructor. Do you have any local Facebook groups or a sort of council licensing you could ask?
I did sign a waiver which is one of the things I mentioned in my text to her for why I doubted the insurance could really hurt her - there's a risk waiver. There's also a law in the state of Utah protecting equine sports as inherently risky, or something, which makes it even more baffling/suspicious to me that she freaked out.

I live in a smallish-city in the southern part of the state and as far as I've researched there are only 3 options for riding: my teacher (the only person certified by the ARIA organization), a woman in a different area who is friends with my teacher and only does Western riding, and a school directly in town which purportedly has a bad reputation for safety. Then again, my teacher is the one who said the school in town isn't safe, so I'm not sure how convinced I am...but I have contacted all 3 before choosing my instructor and the town school wasn't very professional. I may have to wait until I move somewhere else.
 

Renna

New Member
Jul 18, 2021
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I am in UK. Even here where riding schools are licenced and often registered by the BHS it is just about impossible for a school to admit liability.
I have had occasional lessons in USA and in the USA students are obliged to sign a waiver far stronger than any risk acceptance in the UK.

I know one RI in the UK who was sued, and her insurance company and the clients insurance company disputed it out. But a horse spooking in the school in walk or trot is a fairly normal occurence (I mean it has happened to me at least twice) and both times I fell with no injury.

Of course any riding school owner will be defensive if they believe that an insurance claim may be made against them. It could cost them their livelihood.

Learning to ride usually involves falls (my mother said years ago) and you usually get up and get on again. If you suffered a particular injury you might need to claim your were given an unsuitable horse or should have been led round the school.

However, riders I know have had to stop riding when their bones became too fragile. No one on a forum can give you a medical opinion as whether or not your own condition made it dangerous to ride.

I have had one fall where bad practice and negligence were a factor. I have not pursued the matter as it was at a RS where I had ridden for many years but I have not yet returned to that school. If I were to go back, I would stipulate that the situation was never repeated. I live in an area with many riding schools and there are three or four where I know I will be safe. If you do want to resume riding, make a choice bearing safety in mind.

If I were desperate for a refund of my prepaid rides at that school and the school refused to refund, in the UK we have a small claims court to claim such small sums. In the UK too we have a National Health Service so there are no treatment costs and most riding falls result only in possible loss of earnings.

The questions that I would ask myself, if I were you.
1. Am I physically fit to ride and if so in what setting?
2. Do I want to ride in that safe setting, accepting the expense and the risk?
3 Can I afford to pay for it?

If you take the RS to court to get damages, I suspect you are very unlikely to be accepted as a student elsewhere in your neighbourhood. Every one falls when learning to ride and if this was in the UK you would be very unlikely to win compensation from the riding school.

Arm and wrist bones are most likely to break in a fall and apparently that is because it is instinct to put out an arm to break one's fall. My reactions are far too slow. I wear a body protector and have always tried to hang onto the reins. Thus I tend to fall on my back with my hands in the air and usually bang the back of my head.

To be honest, I can go on riding only because I am still well and active. It is luck. I would not go on riding if my bones were fragile. It would frighten me.

If I were in the USA I would ride Western and go on trail rides just in walk and trot. I love quarter horses and trail ride horses know their job. The Western saddle holds one more safely on the horse and there is much less pressure than riding English.
I don't want to take the RS to court and never have. That's why I'm so baffled. I know it's a risky sport and am honestly a little annoyed that I had such a bad fall doing nothing particularly interesting. This is the United States and our healthcare/social care sucks, so it's a given that individuals and businesses need individual insurance (medical, dental, maybe vision) or business insurance. It's strange to me that a riding teacher wouldn't understand how her own insurance works or how to report non-fault incidents to health insurance companies; she must have seen dozens of falls over the decades and a few were bound to be serious. I'm not sure how it works in the UK since you have NHS, but here lying to insurance is considered fraud and can be prosecuted so I'm not keen to make something up about what happened to me. My state also has a law that protects riding schools/teachers from liability for most accidents, which just makes this more confusing for me.

As far as I know, I also don't have a condition. My grandmother had osteoporosis but I've never had any indication that I'm especially fragile. I trip plenty; I've just never fallen from 5 feet in the air before. /shrug
 

Doodle92

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Apr 6, 2021
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Ok I don’t think I am quite understanding then. You signed a waiver to (I presume) say you would not hold the business responsible if you were to get hurt. You got hurt. A genuine injury that sadly can happen when you ride horses. You said that you did not hold anyone responsible which is fair enough. Instructor then contacted you to check in and you mentioned insurance. She perhaps then panicked that she was about the be sued, which tbh would ruin her. I do not agree with how she responded at all. She should not have said that. But you then blocked her. Perhaps she is now feeling terrible that she over reacted and has no way of fixing the situation. She perhaps saw you as a friend and was feeling hurt that you would blame her for an injury you got. By asking if it would increase her premiums that is saying you will be claiming against her, a situation she felt would be avoided by signing the waiver. Riding is a high risk activity. Even the best of riders fall off. I would have thought therefore it would be your insurance entirely too pay for your treatment?
 
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Doodle92

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I think this is a problem then. Things happen and you can hurt yourself doing nothing particularly interesting. Horses are living beings. They spook, they trip up over their own feet, they accidentally whack you in your head while you are cleaning a hoof.
 

Renna

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Jul 18, 2021
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Ok I don’t think I am quite understanding then. You signed a waiver to (I presume) say you would not hold the business responsible if you were to get hurt. You got hurt. A genuine injury that sadly can happen when you ride horses. You said that you did not hold anyone responsible which is fair enough. Instructor then contacted you to check in and you mentioned insurance. She perhaps then panicked that she was about the be sued, which tbh would ruin her. I do not agree with how she responded at all. She should not have said that. But you then blocked her. Perhaps she is now feeling terrible that she over reacted and has no way of fixing the situation. She perhaps saw you as a friend and was feeling hurt that you would blame her for an injury you got. By asking if it would increase her premiums that is saying you will be claiming against her, a situation she felt would be avoided by signing the waiver. Riding is a high risk activity. Even the best of riders fall off. I would have thought therefore it would be your insurance entirely too pay for your treatment?
I think it will still be completely on my insurance to pay but the best way I can explain American insurance is by telling a story that happened to me. Once upon a time I was driving a car. 2 cars ahead of me, someone hit another car from behind. The car directly in front of me then hit that car, and then I hit them, and then the car behind me hit me. It was a chain reaction and none of the cars were seriously damaged. No one was seriously injured.

I was not at fault for the accident, so my auto insurance didn't have to pay to fix other people's cars. But I was in an accident. That was an excuse for my company to raise my monthly premiums.

Some time later an idiot blasted through a changing light and T-boned me. Both cars were totaled. The accident wasn't my fault, so I didn't have to pay for that guy's medical care or his car, but I was still in an accident and up the premiums went again.

I've never dealt with American stable insurance/business insurance and have no idea if it's as cutthroat as auto insurance, but auto insurance is -awful-. That's exactly why I was asking her about it. I don't think my insurance will be able to have any claim against her stable, but I was worried that even a phone call from my insurance to hers would make them go "oh dear, something bad happened and it looks like we'll have to milk more money from you, how sad" and raise the rates. I wanted to figure out how to fill out this form to make it very clear that there would be no point in them even trying to go after her. They don't have a case.
 
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Doodle92

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Yes that is the same here. A young boy vandalised my car. Not my fault, but premiums went up. But where I am struggling to understand is, in your case, you signed a waiver to say she was not liable and so you couldn’t claim against her. Yet you are asking if her premiums will go up. Which means there has to have been a “loss” to her insurance. You have said yes you are not liable but I still want to claim from you/your insurance. Tbh if every time someone got injured at a riding school and their insurance had to pay out, whether at fault or not, they would very soon be out of business. The problem here is you signed a waiver.
 

Renna

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Jul 18, 2021
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Yes that is the same here. A young boy vandalised my car. Not my fault, but premiums went up. But where I am struggling to understand is, in your case, you signed a waiver to say she was not liable and so you couldn’t claim against her. Yet you are asking if her premiums will go up. Which means there has to have been a “loss” to her insurance. You have said yes you are not liable but I still want to claim from you/your insurance. Tbh if every time someone got injured at a riding school and their insurance had to pay out, whether at fault or not, they would very soon be out of business. The problem here is you signed a waiver.
I think I'm not explaining clearly. I have to report what happened to my health insurance. Not doing so is considered fraud and my insurance company could prosecute me for it. The ER docs, surgeons, nurses, etc. all know that I fell off a horse, and if any of them are interviewed after I submit paperwork saying anything else, I'm in trouble. I also can't control what my insurance decides to do after I submit the incident report. I can possibly refuse to provide any of her information and that might work; if they don't know where I was riding they can't call anyone (although I may be pressured into it later, I'm not sure). I also plan to write that it was no-fault and mention Utah Law #Whatever provides liability immunity, and hopefully that will prevent my insurance from bothering, but there's a chance that the report will go to a really zealous agent who will want to try anyway. Once the report is turned in it's completely out of my hands and I wanted her to help me fill it out to lower her risk as much as possible.

I suspect she wants me to not report anything at all, which could jeopardize me.
 
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carthorse

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I suspect that if it's like our insurance once @Renna has made a claim on her health insurance it's then out of her hands what they do. They may try to see if they can get something out of the school's insurance simply because that's how insurance companies work. Not Renna's fault, she can hardly be expected no to claim on her own insurance.
 

Emilikins

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Feb 28, 2021
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I'm in Nebraska, and we actually have legislation that completely frees equestrian businesses of liability for injuries/accidents (of course, I'm sure if something egregious happened, a savvy lawyer would find a work around). I've also signed waivers at different events and barns on top of that, because horses be horses. But the legislation, as far as I understand it, is pretty blanket and the waivers may be more of an acknowledgement that, yes, I read the signs and mounted at my own risk.

I'm sorry that happened to you, especially after you found a good barn fit. Without seeing the insurance company's survey, I can't judge whether it's sort of a general fact gathering procedure or if they're considering litigation. I've never had a health insurance company investigate an injury ... but I also didn't sustain anything off a horse. Just your typical student athlete fair or random dumb health stuff. What's done is done, but it's definitely worth the apology along the lines of, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this to come off as threatening, I was just surprised by my insurance company and wanted you to be fully aware of what I'm navigating. I know it's not your fault, I just didn't know if this was standard procedure or something to be concerned about." You're BOTH shook, and texting honestly sucks for stuff like this.

I hope your elbow is healing well. Sounds painful and complicated.
 
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