Horse cutting corners

[ReturneeRider]

The horse I regularly ride has a habit of trying to take shortcuts in the ring (cutting corners, etc). I use my inside leg and outside rein to urge her towards the corner, and I remain focused on the direction I expect her to go rather than the one she wants to take. She grudgingly listens at the walk and the trot, but not at all at the canter. The RI has told me that this horse does this even with the most experienced riders and it's a bad habit they're trying to get her out of, so I'm not expecting to transform her into a perfectly obedient horse, but I'm wondering if anyone has other tricks and ideas that I'm not currently using.

 

[fourlegs]

A couple of ideas - give more inside rein, use the whip on inside shoulder.

 

[Jessey]

Yup that inside rein can help hold the inside shoulder up so they can't drop it to fall in, if you have it in walk and trot it won't be far behind in canter

 

[newforest]

Put poles down to guide them. Sorted mine out that way without me needing to do anything in walk and trot.
But if they fall in with the canter are they unbalanced, mine does and is.

 

[Feawen]

Yes, the horse is very likely to be unbalanced at the canter. Try riding the short side of the arena as a single wide curve, like half a 20m circle that touches the track for 3-4 strides at A or C, instead of trying to push the horse into the corner or ride a right-angle turn. Concentrate on keeping a forward but regular rhythm and inviting some inside flexion.

Keep up the good work in walk and trot as well - riding good turns with correct flexion at the slower paces will only help the horse to engage and carry herself better, and eventually help the canter too.

Of course ideally you would work with your instructor to help improve the horse's balance, suppleness and ability to step through at the canter, but that isn't something you'll resolve in one session. It also depends on whereabouts you are in your riding development as it's a big ask for an inexperienced rider to improve a horse's canter.

 

[ReturneeRider]

I rode this horse in a dressage test today (Intro B). It was a struggle to keep her from cutting corners even though it was only walk/trot, and the judge mentioned it on the score sheet. Bah. We had an overall score of 63, which isn't too bad considering I only returned to riding in February. (I'm definitely not up for improving a horse's canter quite yet! ) Thanks for all the tips - I'll keep trying and see how it goes next lesson.

 

[Feawen]

63% is very respectable - well done! And you have some constructive feedback to work on for your next test, which is what dressage is all about.

A suggestion for the walk and trot - use your inside leg and outside rein as you approach a corner to keep the horse on the track as far as possible, but allow the outside rein contact to soften as the horse starts to turn. If you use too much outside rein as you turn, the horse can't bend to the inside, so she'll tend to turn her head and neck out towards the fence and fall in towards the middle of the school through her shoulder even more.

So with your inside leg supporting throughout, hold the outside rein contact firmly a few strides before the corner, soften to allow the turn, firm for the few strides round the short side, soften for the corner, then come back to neutral for the long side. It's all in the timing.

Good luck with your next lesson, and congratulations again on the test

 

[fourlegs]

Sorry - I don't agree with the suggestions above.

The reins only flex the horse's neck, the inside leg bends the horse. It is perfectly possible to ride a corner correctly with the horse's head flexed to the outside, in fact we often use that on canter transitions on a 20 metre circle.

Normally in a corner you will need to bend the horse using your inside leg firmly, maintain the outside rein against the neck to stop the horse falling out through the outside shoulder and GIVE with the inside rein.

I know it sounds wrong but the technique is that used by the Spanish Riding School of Vienna - I am so lucky to have an instructor who trained there.

 

[Jessey]

Sorry - I don't agree with the suggestions above.

The reins only flex the horse's neck, the inside leg bends the horse. It is perfectly possible to ride a corner correctly with the horse's head flexed to the outside, in fact we often use that on canter transitions on a 20 metre circle.

Normally in a corner you will need to bend the horse using your inside leg firmly, maintain the outside rein against the neck to stop the horse falling out through the outside shoulder and GIVE with the inside rein.

I know it sounds wrong but the technique is that used by the Spanish Riding School of Vienna - I am so lucky to have an instructor who trained there.

I don't mean to haul the horse around with the inside rein, and don't disagree with you on a horse that works well off the leg that is entirely where the bend should come from, but most often with riding school ponies they are stiff as boards and you see the rider trying to 'pull' the horse out onto the track with the outside rein whilst dropping the inside contact allowing the shoulder to drop through, which is why I said the inside rein can help hold the shoulder, I guess I should have said even contact can help contain the front end.

 

[Feawen]

It is perfectly possible to ride a corner correctly with the horse's head flexed to the outside

Yes, it is, though not on a horse who is falling in through the inside shoulder as this one is.

Normally in a corner you will need to bend the horse using your inside leg firmly, maintain the outside rein against the neck to stop the horse falling out through the outside shoulder and GIVE with the inside rein.

I haven't mentioned the inside hand at all, but I will here. It is sometimes necessary to request an inside flexion of the poll or neck with the inside hand. However, this is easy to overdo, and I suspect the OP can solve her problem using her inside leg and outside rein, as I have written, with some finessing of the outside rein contact, ie, she may need to be firm with the inside leg and outside rein at first to bring the horse into the corner, but should soften (not drop) the contact to avoid turning the horse's head to the outside and risk the horse ducking in through her inside shoulder on the turn. Softening the contact also indicates to the horse she has done the right thing - a release of pressure, so hopefully she will learn what is wanted and the rider will need to use less pressure over time. This rider is struggling with her horse falling in, not out.

I know it sounds wrong but the technique is that used by the Spanish Riding School of Vienna - I am so lucky to have an instructor who trained there.

Indeed, I have enjoyed reading about your adventures in Tuscany. I believe riding from the inside leg to outside hand is common across most schools of thought in dressage, though I've heard it described differently by different trainers. I have tried to give a simple explanation of the idea and a plan of action that I think a returning rider will be able to implement on a riding school horse, but I think that what I'm suggesting for the walk and trot is not that dissimilar to your explanation.

For the canter, I think this rider with this horse will have to be pragmatic, and not try to insist too much on riding deeply into the corners. If the horse is unbalanced she simply won't be able to deliver and will either motorbike or break to trot. It would be lovely if every rider had a balanced, correctly schooled horse to learn on, but in my experience this is hard to find at UK riding schools. That doesn't mean that RS riders can't progress or enjoy their riding though it does make the process harder imo.

Apologies to the OP, who has probably read enough theory to last a long while, and who sounds like she is doing a very nice job in less than ideal circumstances.

 

[fourlegs]

I am glad you enjoy our adventures in Tuscany, to be fair I acknowledge that different trainers explain things differently and I know that sometimes they disagree with each other! Add that to riders' (mis)understanding what the trainer is saying and you can end up with a wide variation in end results!

Your method is EXACTLY what one of the other trainers in Tuscany advocates - all I know is that more than one horse at the school there behaves much better when there is no inside rein contact at all as advised by the Spanish riding school trainer - she also doesn't advise flexion as most novices overdo it.

 

[ReturneeRider]

The theory helps quite a bit. : ) It also gives me some different ideas to try. She was bending round the corners perfectly in my last lesson in walk. Trotting was a bit more challenging, but I'd say we had it 80% of the time. Canter was a hot mess (chocolate-pudding-exploded-in-microwave sort of hot mess). She breaks into trot at the corners or cuts them entirely, so I think it is a question of her balance. I've decided to be pragmatic and not to worry about perfecting that for now, as Feawen has suggested.

I'm also trying to figure out the line between 'being pragmatic' and 'not pushing myself hard enough'. When I came back to riding they assessed me as being suitable for this group, but I've started to feel as if I'm not progressing as quickly as I might. The ability level feels unequal (the confidence level definitely is - there is one rider in our group who is terrified of cantering) and in that lesson I started to feel frustrated. I'm wondering how to raise this with the RI without sounding as if I have too good opinion of my own skill. It's not that I think I'm amazing, but I want to be working on riding with more precision, and now whenever I ask a question about achieving a certain thing I just get told, "Don't worry about that for now." I'm a teacher myself and in my experience if a student is aware enough to ask the question they're ready to learn the answer...

 

[SoLucky]

No useful tips from me unfortunately just wanted to say I loved your description of the hot mess canter! It feels very familiar! Delicious but I know it’s not exactly how it should be!

 

[Skib]

I think it worth adding that in canter horses do not go deep into a corner - it isnt like riding trot.

Richard Davison, GB dressage coach has a very good dvd on dressage. He says that you ride an arc round the corner in canter (as suggested by the person who suggested riding part of a circle.) He says that this arc must be completely even. In canter the horse should leave the outside track at a point which is the same distance from the corner as the point where it joins the outside track again.
Once can therefore ride a widish loop to start with and gradually reduce it as the RS horse and rider becomes more balanced.
I have been taught to control the bend with the outside rein but if I am on a horse that is cutting the corner in canter, I make it go back to the track at the equivalent distance. It is easy in canter if the horse starts to steer itself to let it continue and not really rejoin the track on the short side of the school. You know something has gone wrong and one's reaction is to give up. But it is well worth riding the second half of the arc.

I too have an RI influenced by the Spanish school and have been taught that way. But what you see from this thread is the great variety of aids and ways of riding a horse that tends to cut corners in canter. What none of us can tell you is which one is right for you and for the particular horse you are riding. Most early dressage tests include canter on a circle so that both horse and rider learn how to do that.

As a returnee you may well be too advanced for this class - so it is worth discussing with the school. My own experience was that my first time back in the saddle, I could barely ride at all. But by the third lesson I or my body had remembered everything. Returning to riding is nothing like starting from scratch.

 

[Anonymous Person]

The horse I regularly ride has a habit of trying to take shortcuts in the ring (cutting corners, etc). I use my inside leg and outside rein to urge her towards the corner, and I remain focused on the direction I expect her to go rather than the one she wants to take. She grudgingly listens at the walk and the trot, but not at all at the canter. The RI has told me that this horse does this even with the most experienced riders and it's a bad habit they're trying to get her out of, so I'm not expecting to transform her into a perfectly obedient horse, but I'm wondering if anyone has other tricks and ideas that I'm not currently

I used to have lots of trouble with this as well, so you are not alone. What really helped me was putting cones in each of the corners and making myself go around the cones in the corners. I would only allow myself to move up to a fast gait once I had gotten through all 4 corners perfectly. In every minute of the lesson make sure the horse is going in the corners. Even during the free walk and cool down/warm up. If you let them skip one corner the will learn that you will let them cut corners and will do it more often. Hope this helped and good luck!

 

[Skib]

In his DVD on Dressage Richard Davison the UK coach and rider says that when cantering a corner, the distance from the point at which one leaves the outside track to turn should be the same as the distance between the corner and the point at which one returns to the track. I found that advice a great help, as one can gradually shorten the curve, whereas cantering a circle is different because after cantering a corner, the canter along the short side of the school should be straight.
I have 3 DVDs by Davison and none mention tight corners in canter except for the change of direction over a jump when turning towards the next jump may involve a natural flying change from the horse.

 

[carthorse]

I guess it depends on what you call a tight corner @Skib. Watch top level dressage, preferably in real life and from a good spot, and you'll see just how deep those riders canter into a corner - they have to to have the room to do the movements in the test in a 20 x 60 arena. The reason they can do it is the quality of their canter, most of us wouldn't stand a chance of making those turns on our horses and if we did it almost certainly wouldn't be pretty. Having seen RIchard Davison warming up and competing I can honestly say that he rides his corners in a way that us lesser mortals would definitely call tight it's just that to a horse and rider at that level it's normal.

 

[Skib]

A misuderstanding yet again.
I was talking about the instructional DVDs by Davison. Not his performances.

Looking at my Zotero list I see I own 4 of his DVDs - Enjoying dressage disc 1 and disc 2, Flying changes and Dressage for jumping.
Please note my owning these does not mean I endorse anything or everything on them.
But there are some of his solutions in my repertoire for RS horses, including the spectacular kick start when his wife's horse would not move off from halt.

In any case Davison would always start with a non tight canter corner and reduce it in training.