Horse 911 - 2nd horse, big problem.

[Bless_Gracie]

We've had our horse Gracie since February of this year. Gracie is a Percheron cross, a big girl with a (up until now) quiet disposition. We originally measured her incorrectly, but now know that she stands a tad over 15.5 HH. Gracie was a few hundred pounds underweight when we got her and terrified of a lot of things, i.e., she came with a lot of "baggage". Due to the harsh treatment she had received before coming to live with us Gracie needed to learn to trust humans again and she has. Following the advice of our vet and excellent farrier to a T, we now have a healthy horse - except for a touch of arthritis - that is everything I wanted in a horse.

The one thing Gracie was missing was a buddy. A friend brought her mare over for a couple of visits and they got along very well. Another friend of ours offered us a free horse, a mustang/quarter horse cross gelding. Chief, like Graice, was rescued by my friend. The friend needed to cut back on the number of horses she has and knew that this little guy needed more room then she had to offer him. Chief was starved as a colt and never grew to his potential. He is 7 years old and stands just 12.5 HH. Chief cannot be ridden (by an adult), is a pocket pony, and needed the land we have to offer him. He may in fact be part QH, but boy oh boy the mustang in him sure came out when he had the chance to run in a huge pasture for the first time. After visits to their home and them visiting our farm, we agreed to take Chief with the understanding that he would be returned to them if it didn't work out.

Our friends delivered Chief yesterday and Gracie was excited to see another horse. We made the introductions in the largest pasture that we have, about 40 acres. Everything was fine...at first. Chief ran like the wind, checking out everything. Gracie tried to keep up, but her size and arthritis slowed her down. Then bedtime/paddock time came...Gracie is in estrus (we weren't sure until yesterday) and she now wants Chief dead. We are keeping them separated while we decide what to do, only we don't know what to do. Should we return Chief immediately or keep them separate for awhile and see what transpires once Gracie is out of estrus?

 

[Jessey]

Oo, thats not ideal what exactly is gracie doing? When you say bedtime, did you seperate them or just bring both in to a smaller paddock? Did they have feed in the smaller paddock?
Horse introductions can look and even sound quite dramatic, while they are finding their feet and figuring out who is the boss and food often exasperates this, given gracie arrived to you very thin it wouldn't be suprising if she is being defensive over food. The heat generally makes most mares much more vocal and squealy and it can make some agressive, but not generally.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

Gosh I have no experience to offer but I'm sorry that it didn't go smoothly and I hope it works out for you.

 

[Bless_Gracie]

Oo, thats not ideal what exactly is gracie doing? When you say bedtime, did you seperate them or just bring both in to a smaller paddock? Did they have feed in the smaller paddock?
Horse introductions can look and even sound quite dramatic, while they are finding their feet and figuring out who is the boss and food often exasperates this, given gracie arrived to you very thin it wouldn't be suprising if she is being defensive over food. The heat generally makes most mares much more vocal and squealy and it can make some agressive, but not generally.

Yesterday evening Gracie charged him, whirling and kicking, attempting to bite, squealing at him. Chief was terrified and didn't try to defend himself, but rather ran as far away as possible.
Before the attack, they had spent a few hours in the same general vicinity of each other, we let them be (in the big meadow, 40 acres). Up to that point there had been no aggression other than Gracie occasionally hopping at him with her front feet. Awhile later Gracie came trotting back up around the house, she likes to stay close, but no Chief. We found him at the far end of the farm and led him back. It was after I led him back that Gracie came running from out of nowhere and attacked. As I got out of the way (jumped a fence) I ordered Gracie to stop and she did.
We had intended for them to share Gracie's large paddock, although feed them in separate areas of the paddock. We ended up feeding Gracie outside her paddock and Chief in the paddock, in such a way that they could not see each other. We are continuing to keep them separate. Gracie appears a tad calmer today, just stands outside the paddock and watches him. She has nickered at him once or twice, but no squealing or other signs of aggression. When she gets tired of standing and staring she goes about her normal business.
TIA for any advice you care to offer.

 

[Trewsers]

Its so stressful. When J died we got Chloe as companion - at first I did wonder what I'd done because Storm was very vocal and aggressive. Chloe was the bigger horse but it didn't seem to matter! We put them into the arena initially - watching them to see what happened and ready to step in if need be. There was lots of noise and squealing in particular and lots of posturing and body language. I did worry but eventually they settled. Things got better in the large paddock - tho Storm was very clear about her space and the fact she did not want Chloe in it. Even after four years Storm still does not mutually groom with her - and is very territorial about feed. She will pull faces and bite her door if Chloe gets too close on the yard. Yet after a short while - she would call for Chloe if I took her for a walk - so I guessed that she liked / had bonded with her more than we initially thought. Even now, she will pull faces one moment, but if I took Chloe away up the hill and out of site she'd call for her - loudly!lol
I hope things settle down for you. I think your best plan is to keep them apart but close (that doesn't make sense!) so they can see and hear each other in the field but be separate for feeding times if you give a bucket feed. Then maybe after a week - see about putting the lad back in with her - set things up so you can easily get him out of there if she's having a meltdown with him.
Hope it starts to work out for you - it can all be very worrying. Hopefully you'll look back on this and say gosh, can you believe they didn't used to be so close!

 

[Bless_Gracie]

Thanks Trewsers.
Our usual routine with Gracie is that she only spends her nights in her paddock. After a morning feeding of her pelleted feed we turn her out to graze. Our farm is 80 acres, completely fenced around the property lines, and the vast majority of the farm is pasture set up for grazing. The grass is green and strong now, she'd lost interest in the hay, so (on the advice of our vet) we took her off her hay about a week ago. At around 7 PM Gracie shows back up at her paddock, ready to come in for her evening meal and a grooming. There is enough grass in the paddock to keep her from being bored overnight.
Last night Gracie stayed close to her paddock (judging by the piles), but with a fence separating her from Chief.

 

[Jessey]

Yeah I'd do as Trewsers says, just give them a few days to get used to each others presence but with the safety of a fence between them, honestly if she really wanted to kill him she would likely be attacking him over the fence so it was probably just more gesturing and sorting out the pecking order

 

[Mary Poppins]

It all sounds quite normal to me to be honest. Horses need to establish their place in the herd and they need to work out their pecking order. I would keep them separated by a fence for a few days and then put them back in with each other. They will charge around, kick and bite each other etc. and when they have decided who is going to be 'in charge' as such, they will settle. If they have been used to living alone it will take them time to adapt to each other, but in the long run I think they will both be much happier having company.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

The first time I put Ziggy in with an established herd the other gelding went for him and he still has scars. I took him out. Two days later he jumped the fence and I found him in there with them grazing peacefully!

 

[Bless_Gracie]

Thanks so much for the encouragement.
I did a lot of research when I first got Gracie, using her Coggins paperwork to trace back to her original owner. I know she was once with quite a few horses. Chief came from a home with two other geldings and a mare. The horses he was with were admittedly all smaller than Gracie, with the one gelding being the quiet type, one gelding that was acting pretty cheeky, and the mare just trying to avoid the boys "playing".

When this first happened I stated that this was all on Gracie, all acting out on her part. We have reached the point now where at least some of it is on Chief. Gracie has calmed down, acts like she wants to start over and be friends. Chief is still so terrified of Gracie that he refuses to eat or graze if she is watching him, although late last night I did see him move a few feet closer to where she was resting.

We have formulated a plan - we are going to wait until Saturday and then re-introduce them in the biggest meadow, where there is plenty of room for Chief to get away from Gracie if he feels the need to.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

This sounds promising. I am sure Chief will get over his nerves in time. Good luck!