hmm

[beauradical]

I'm new to this forum so sorry if I've posted in the wrong spot. I read Heather Moffat's Enlightened Equitation...(probably 3 times or more) and I decided to invest in a flexi mullen mouth pelham. Beau responded very good to it at the walk, he was very light. He didn't stick his nose up in the air, and he didn't go behind the vertical. When I picked up trot or canter, that was a different story. He leaned on the bit, he stuck his nose in the air, and he was very stiff and not bendy at all, sometimes he bent to the outside and there was just nothing I could do to get him to bend to the inside, he wasn't very happy. It was the worst at canter, but not good at trot either.

I really believe that my pony could benefit from this bit, but I think I'm using it improperly. As soon as we got intoa tug of war, I stopped, because I know the bit can be very harsh if you use it too strongly.

I want to know how I can get my pony to become light with this bit and come onto the vertical. I felt when I used it at the walk he raised up his back more too, and I want to achieve this at the trot and canter as well.

If anyone has any advice that would be great.

P.S My pony is a Newfoundland Pony cross, he doesn't have perfect conformation either, but he works for me.

http://community.webshots.com/album/206240312eDHnGt

Oh, and just a little about me, I'm from Newfoundland, Canada..and I don't get in the adults who ride ponies forum what "stone" is....how much "stones" equal a pound?? I've never ever heard of that before! :O

I'm also 16, and I'm not extremly experienced but I'm getting back in lessons to brush up and someday I hope for me and my pony to excel at dressage and hunter.

 

[galadriel]

Hi, and welcome to New Rider!

What did he do in previous bits?

What *are* you doing, if you're not sure you're using it correctly?

Are you using two reins or rounders?

What training does he have already? Lifting and rounding the back takes a lot of work on the horse's part. It takes strength that must be built up over time. Asking for too much at once can make the horse resistant.

Does your saddle fit? A saddle that pinches may be tolerable at walk, but dig in a lot more in trot and canter.

 

[beauradical]

He's pretty good in a normal french link but his usually pokes out his nose and sometimes travels hollow. I tried the pelham with 2 reins(not converter) and he responded very well at the walk. At the trot and canter, mostly the canter..he would race away. I'm pretty sure my saddle fits well, it doesn't lean on his withers, it doesn't pinch on the side of the withers etc etc...and I've had a few people check it for me. I do have to use a riser pad though because his saddle did tip back a little. When I tried the pelham, this was before I had a riser pad so maybe if I tried again now with the riser pad he might be more comfortable.

My friend rode him today and when she came back his back was a little dipped it, it wasn't soar or anything. Could this mean that his back muscles are weak? I've been riding him on and off for a few weeks now, so that's probably true. Would you have any ideas on how to strengthen them?

Well, any advice would be appreciated. I guess I excepted too much when I read about the horse on the front cover of Heather's book.

-Alison

 

[galadriel]

Aaaah...

That "dipped back" sounds suspiciously like a tensed back. When a horse fels discomfort in his back, he tenses his back muscles. (They can be very like people that way--also, tensing the muscle prevents something from digging down so deep.) When the horse tenses and holds that muscle, it causes his back to curve down quite a lot. Some horses have built up so much tension in that muscle that they find it difficult to lift their backs up again.

Sticking the nose out or going around hollow are big time symptoms of back discomfort. When the horse tenses his back that way, it makes him hollow.

It sounds to me like you really need to consult with a saddle fitter. I wish I knew one near you. Do you think that you could find one local to you? You may be able to find a flier or business card at local tack or feed stores.

---

Heather's suggestions with reference to the Pelham are for *training* difficulties. On some horses, the horse is just confused and doesn't know what you're asking; sometimes the Pelham can help them figure it out.

However, when you have a *physical* problem, it doesn't matter what you stick in the horse's mouth. If his back hurts, he's going to poke out his nose or travel hollow with his back sucked in. If you force his head down with tack, make his neck all curved and pretty, he'll still be hollow--he'll also be really uncomfortable and bent out of shape.

 

[beauradical]

Thanks so much. I've been told by my coach that my saddle fits fine. I think I'm probably just being paranoid! Either that he needs some muscle toning in his back area(suggestions??). I'm going to get another few coaches out for more opinions on the fit of my saddle. Unfortunatly, I live in Newfoundland. The reject island of Canada..there are no saddle fitters here! I may check the tack store..the guy does make saddles, but I'm not sure if he has a clue how to fit them....properly.

I haven't found any pinching spots, it is level when he is wearing a riser pad..and it never slips around when I'm riding. The only time it ever slipped was a little forward when the girth was a bit loose...and it tipped a bit when I got on and the girth was too loose.

Beau doesn't really travel hollow or with his nose stuck out, if I let him on reasonably loose rein or soft contact he will be relativly stretched out with his nose slightly infront of the vertical which is ok. When I pic up contact though, sometimes he will travel with a hollow back and nose in the air. I ride him in a french link eggbutt and a flash noseband which he is responding VERY well with. I don't do it up tight.

Also, I noticed that my horse frames beautifully after jumping, even small jumps, without even being asked. Could this be because he is more engaged in the hind end? Would ground poles have the same effect?

I really appreciate the advice by the way!!

 

[cvb]

you can do "tummy lifts" from the ground which are dead simple and take a second !

You can do it with fingers but I seem to struggle to find the magic spot. Or use something like the edge of a mane comb...

Then stroke the underneath of your horses tummy from girth area back a bit - and watch his back. You should see it lift and "fill". Let him relax and repeat. Just a handful of lifts every time you groom seems to make a difference

Also you asked about ground poles. You can use them as part of in-hand or ridden work. Start with poles on the ground, but if you have a safe way to raise one end slightly - do that.

Loads of different patterns to play with - just experiment. But one common one is to set out a "fan" of poles i.e. inside ends together and outside edges apart. You can walk close to the centre or further out to vary the size of stride and height you are asking for.

Or set out a series of poles (more than 2) and raise alternate ends. Or a square of poles and raise opposite corners...

come back for more ideas when you need them

(also TTeam books and website have some ideas on things like this).

 

[Bay Mare]

Originally posted by beauradical
Oh, and just a little about me, I'm from Newfoundland, Canada..and I don't get in the adults who ride ponies forum what "stone" is....how much "stones" equal a pound?? I've never ever heard of that before! :O

A stone is 14 pounds

 

[beauradical]

Ok then if I am 120 pounds I am 8.5 stone? Reading other posts this seems bigger than most people who ride ponies. I'm really skinny but maybe my muscle has something to do with it. I'm 5'4 and my pony is 14hh. Maybe I'm too big on him.

Hmmm.

Thanks!!

 

[cvb]

if he's not a really light type, you should be absolutely fine at that height and weight.

 

[beauradical]

Thanks. Well he does have a bit of draft in him. But he isn't heavy boned either.

Has anyone here heard of lacers neck relaxers?

Also, I have an eggbutt french link for my pony, it seems kind of heavy. I also feel like there is too much moving around in my hands. I was thinking about trying a single jointed eggbutt with him but some people seem to think single jointed snaffles are more severe and the joint pokes the roof of the horses mouth, and horses resist it more etc.

Does anyone have any views and opinions on this?

 

[cvb]

ah - but is the "heaviness" in the 'fixed' eggbutt joint, in the weight of the bit,.. or ?

I doubt it is down to the french link element. I personally ride in a loose ring french link and find it works very well for me. The loose ring gives more movement in the mouth, plus you tend to find that they are slightly narrower, lighter bits. Most eggbutts I've seen are quite chunky by the lips.

You could try a "hollow" bit for less weight...

In general skinnier bits are slightly stronger - but it does depend on the horse's mouth. Some horses - with fleshy mouths - are just plain uncomfy in chunky bits.

A single joint is slightly more 'severe' than e.g. a french link - but a Dr Bristol has the link turned on edge (hence more pressure) so will be more severe than either french link or single jointed snaffle.